[PineHallGirl]

Originally Posted by Bydand

You also have to remember that a few very vocal posters do NOT represent the entire state. Most of them are not even in-state, just posting on the MI board and stirring things up. I have lived in MI most of my life and the areas I grew up in, and lived in as an adult, have very little racism and/or class envy. Where I am now is probably the most accepting of people I have EVER lived, and there is almost zero class-envy. Nobody cares what somebody else makes for a wage, what size house, type car they drive, or the type clothes they have. Elsewhere, there may be some, but really it is much less for the vast majority of the state than anyplace else I have been. People tend to make the mistake of judging the entire state by actions and perceptions of the NE corner, or larger cities. Just like PA is not all Pittsburgh, or the old stereotype of the Scranton area. MI is not Detroit, Saginaw, Flint, or even Grand Rapids.



Back when segregation was an accepted policy in this Country, where was one of the top destinations for African-American families to get away on vacation where they were accepted and welcomed? Idlewild, MI which is not too far away from where I grew up. My Grandfather and Grandmother welcomed passing black tourists into their little store for supplies and into their home if the need arose, just like they did for white travelers. They were NOT unique in this area. Some family friends had a resort on a lakeside in the area and welcomed people of every color. They lost some of their big city clients, but I remember when the race riots of the 60's were going on when I was a kid and sitting around a "community" campfire at the resort surrounded by Blacks, Whites and Latinos together talking about the days fishing, or other explorations; as well as the riots; and I wondered why everybody got along so well in our area and not in other areas, even areas only a hundred miles or so away. (Frankly I still wonder to tell the truth.)

Please don't judge the entire state by the rantings of a few very vocal idiots who can hide behind a computer keyboard and spread their stupidity.

A thoughtful post.

[Sharks With Lasers]

Originally Posted by ScranBarre

I've spent several hours over the course of the past two days reading with great alacrity the racial and sociocultural overtones prevalent in many of the threads on the Michigan and Detroit forums, and I'm just sitting here scratching my head to ponder why these issues must permeate everything you people discuss?

That brou-ha-ha of a thread regarding the pack of savage ghetto kids who brutally beat that mentally-ill man on a bicycle was the last straw for me. Sweeping and broad generalizations benefit nobody. I don't particularly think my home state of Pennsylvania and Michigan are very far removed at all in terms of demographics, economic struggles, political stances, etc., and yet we're a much more successfully integrated state in terms of racial and class differences. Why?

Here are some questions I have for you all:

1. What is up with people who can't afford to have children having them anyways as a means to burden we tax payers? Is it a "status symbol" to show off the fact that your private parts get plenty of recreational usage? Are people just ignorant of contraceptives measures? This doesn't only apply exclusively to minorities, either, before someone mentions that, as we also have the highly-publicized case of that unemployed leech from California who now has 14 children that she can't afford. As a student working full-time to put myself through college, I'm OUTRAGED that a portion of my income goes to support families like that.
2. Why do so few people in Michigan have college educations? I believe that only 10% of adults in Detroit have a college degree. Whether you people like it or not the days of graduating from high school and landing in a long-term blue-collar job at the town factory with generous compensation and benefits to support all of the townspeople are over. In order to be viable in today's marketplace you need not only a degree in most cases, but also an advanced degree. I am about to graduate with my Bachelor's Degree, and even I'm having difficulty obtaining a commensurate position with my upbeat persona and strong work ethic, hence why I'm considering going all the way for my Ph.D. to make myself more marketable to prospective skilled employers. Instead of whining "I can't find a job," as I see many on this state forum doing, why don't you research what opportunities ARE available and market yourselves appropriately? You may not have many opportunities working on an assembly line, but there ARE programs available to help you go back to school to learn how to be an LPN, earn your CDL, become an apprentice tradesman, etc. In my area the medical, transportation/warehousing, and skilled trades are HOT right now so you have only yourselves to blame for wallowing around in unemployed bliss for years on end when you can reinvent yourself to find a new avenue to support your family. Complaining feels so much better than actually showing initiative though, doesn't it?
3. Why is slavery still being referenced on this forum? The last time I checked your distant ancestry had VERY LITTLE impact upon the decisions you make TODAY to influence your OWN lives! How do I know this? I know of some affluent coal baron families in my own area who, after just a few generations, have tumbled far down the socioeconomic ladder. Similarly you should NOT be saying "I'm struggling today because my great-great-great grandfather was a slave." That's not an acceptable excuse. Slavery was abolished WAY over 100 years ago. Stop using it as a "crutch," educate yourself, and do something productive.
   
   Everyone is so worried about being "politically correct." If we continue to tap-dance all around our societal ills, then how can we ever address them and hope to RECTIFY them?

I grew up in Michigan and live in Pennsylvania now. The states feel remarkably similar to me. Michigan obviously has had a higher unemployment rate for a while now, which contributes to somewhat more of a gloom and doom atmosphere. Also, people are a lot more repulsed and disgusted by Detroit than Philadelphia or Pittsburgh (or just about anywhere for that manner.) But other than that, it isn't much different at all.

A lot of young people in Michigan go to college. Some stay after graduation, although probably somewhere around 2/3rds end up leaving, and not just for economic reasons. Maybe some of them will return. But Michiganders by in large are friendly people who are willing to help you out if you need or just to have a conversation with, regardless of race or class.

[Driller1]

Race or class??? Just what does that mean???? People are just people. In the summer I stop in little and big stores covered in mud. I have been working. What makes class?? Me being dirty?? I have laughed many times because I did not want the clerk to have to touch me when handing me change. Then I get back in my $300,000 well rig.

[xlabel]

Here are some questions I have for you all

1. Why do so few people in Michigan have college educations? I believe that only 10% of adults in Detroit have a college degree. Whether you people like it or not the days of graduating from high school and landing in a long-term blue-collar job at the town factory with generous compensation and benefits to support all of the townspeople are over. In order to be viable in today's marketplace you need not only a degree in most cases, but also an advanced degree. I am about to graduate with my Bachelor's Degree, and even I'm having difficulty obtaining a commensurate position with my upbeat persona and strong work ethic, hence why I'm considering going all the way for my Ph.D. to make myself more marketable to prospective skilled employers. Instead of whining "I can't find a job," as I see many on this state forum doing, why don't you research what opportunities ARE available and market yourselves appropriately? You may not have many opportunities working on an assembly line, but there ARE programs available to help you go back to school to learn how to be an LPN, earn your CDL, become an apprentice tradesman, etc. In my area the medical, transportation/warehousing, and skilled trades are HOT right now so you have only yourselves to blame for wallowing around in unemployed bliss for years on end when you can reinvent yourself to find a new avenue to support your family. Complaining feels so much better than actually showing initiative though, doesn't it?

[/quote]
By some of your assertions I don't think you understand the depth or scope of the problem many are facing in MI. The 10.6% unemployment numbers don't reflect that it's not some far away place that on the other side of the state being shut sown, it's a place I may pass by on the way to my job or a place that I personally know folks who work there. No industry including the ones you mentioned are safe and it's not just as easy as, "I'll go back to school and be a nurse". There are waiting lists to even begin classwork for programs like that and folks need jobs and releif now. The downward spiral didn't just start at the end of 2007 here, it's been going on for a number of years. It's not just as easy as becoming educated either, when I first got here in late 2007, I (hs education) was working right along side folks with advanced degrees pulling weeds through a temp service. Sure you are going to have a few "whiners", that is not unique to just MI, but overwhelmingly folks here are a hardworking, proud group of people who every right to expect more from thier government not in the form of handouts but rather,jobs.

[Driller1]

Michigan is a hard state to do business in. If would help a lot if the government would get out of the way.

[and the]

Originally Posted by ScranBarre

I've spent several hours over the course of the past two days reading with great alacrity the racial and sociocultural overtones prevalent in many of the threads on the Michigan and Detroit forums, and I'm just sitting here scratching my head to ponder why these issues must permeate everything you people discuss?

That brou-ha-ha of a thread regarding the pack of savage ghetto kids who brutally beat that mentally-ill man on a bicycle was the last straw for me. I don't particularly think my home state of Pennsylvania and Michigan are very far removed at all in terms of demographics, economic struggles, political stances, etc., and yet we're a much more successfully integrated state in terms of racial and class differences. Why?

Here are some questions I have for you all:

1. What is up with people who can't afford to have children having them anyways as a means to burden we tax payers? Is it a "status symbol" to show off the fact that your private parts get plenty of recreational usage? Are people just ignorant of contraceptives measures? This doesn't only apply exclusively to minorities, either, before someone mentions that, as we also have the highly-publicized case of that unemployed leech from California who now has 14 children that she can't afford. As a student working full-time to put myself through college, I'm OUTRAGED that a portion of my income goes to support families like that.
2. Why do so few people in Michigan have college educations? I believe that only 10% of adults in Detroit have a college degree. Whether you people like it or not the days of graduating from high school and landing in a long-term blue-collar job at the town factory with generous compensation and benefits to support all of the townspeople are over. In order to be viable in today's marketplace you need not only a degree in most cases, but also an advanced degree. I am about to graduate with my Bachelor's Degree, and even I'm having difficulty obtaining a commensurate position with my upbeat persona and strong work ethic, hence why I'm considering going all the way for my Ph.D. to make myself more marketable to prospective skilled employers. Instead of whining "I can't find a job," as I see many on this state forum doing, why don't you research what opportunities ARE available and market yourselves appropriately? You may not have many opportunities working on an assembly line, but there ARE programs available to help you go back to school to learn how to be an LPN, earn your CDL, become an apprentice tradesman, etc. In my area the medical, transportation/warehousing, and skilled trades are HOT right now so you have only yourselves to blame for wallowing around in unemployed bliss for years on end when you can reinvent yourself to find a new avenue to support your family. Complaining feels so much better than actually showing initiative though, doesn't it?
3. Why is slavery still being referenced on this forum? The last time I checked your distant ancestry had VERY LITTLE impact upon the decisions you make TODAY to influence your OWN lives! How do I know this? I know of some affluent coal baron families in my own area who, after just a few generations, have tumbled far down the socioeconomic ladder. Similarly you should NOT be saying "I'm struggling today because my great-great-great grandfather was a slave." That's not an acceptable excuse. Slavery was abolished WAY over 100 years ago. Stop using it as a "crutch," educate yourself, and do something productive.
   
   Everyone is so worried about being "politically correct." If we continue to tap-dance all around our societal ills, then how can we ever address them and hope to RECTIFY them?

I'm not sure how you and your friend alacrity can say:

Sweeping and broad generalizations benefit nobody.

And then:

Why do so few people in Michigan have college educations?

In the same post. You do know that Michigan is not Detroit, don't you?

One thing I've often wondered about is how can people who keep saying how poor they are, or how life has treated them unfairly, etc...have the money to be using the internet so much? Either they're sitting at home where they have a computer and internet/cable access all paid up, or they're sitting in a library doing something other than research for school. If I didn't have a job, I sure wouldn't be wasting my time on internet boards complaining about it when I could be job hunting.....

[Driller1]

Originally Posted by and the

I'm not sure how you and your friend alacrity can say:



And then:



In the same post. You do know that Michigan is not Detroit, don't you?

One thing I've often wondered about is how can people who keep saying how poor they are, or how life has treated them unfairly, etc...have the money to be using the internet so much? Either they're sitting at home where they have a computer and internet/cable access all paid up, or they're sitting in a library doing something other than research for school. If I didn't have a job, I sure wouldn't be wasting my time on internet boards complaining about it when I could be job hunting.....

I think the same thing daily!!! I have only had a computer and cable the last few years. I paid off by bills FIRST.

[wanderer74]

Originally Posted by and the

One thing I've often wondered about is how can people who keep saying how poor they are, or how life has treated them unfairly, etc...have the money to be using the internet so much? Either they're sitting at home where they have a computer and internet/cable access all paid up, or they're sitting in a library doing something other than research for school. If I didn't have a job, I sure wouldn't be wasting my time on internet boards complaining about it when I could be job hunting.....

Oh yeah, god FORBID that someone who's only working part-time actually go to the library and get on a board like City Data I forgot that people who are unemployed and/or underemployed are only allowed to eat, sleep and apply for jobs.

Also, furthermore, it really irritates me when people on here (not just you) frequently bring up internet access as some kind of proof that a person can't really be poor, or that a poor person is spending their money irresponsibly. I had internet access at home even while my husband was unemployed for 10 months. We already had the computer bought and paid for with cash and we were spending a whopping $20 a month (at the time) for our internet access. Poor people aren't allowed to spend $20 a month? That $20 a month is not going to make the difference between being poor and being middle class. I can understand complaining about poor people having the money for a cigarette habit but that's usually more than $20 a WEEK, not $20 a MONTH. Sure, little costs add up, but $20 for internet access is not going to change a person's financial situation significantly either way. Can we stop using internet access as proof that someone's not really poor or spending irresponsibly while poor?

[Peter B]

We moved to Northern Michigan 4 years ago and there is distinct class envy up here. God forbid you drive a foreign car! A couple up the block from us, husband is a dentist and wife is a nurse, moved here from suburban Chicago 3 years ago. They each drive late model Mercedes Benz vehicles and you wouldn't believe the snide remarks people make regarding them, people who are nice to their face but make remarks when they're not around. Very nice folks who have put their house up for sale and are moving back to Chicago as they miss the suburban amenities. Some folks up here who do not have are jealous of the one's that do.

[Driller1]

Originally Posted by wanderer74

Oh yeah, god FORBID that someone who's only working part-time actually go to the library and get on a board like City Data I forgot that people who are unemployed and/or underemployed are only allowed to eat, sleep and apply for jobs.

Also, furthermore, it really irritates me when people on here (not just you) frequently bring up internet access as some kind of proof that a person can't really be poor, or that a poor person is spending their money irresponsibly. I had internet access at home even while my husband was unemployed for 10 months. We already had the computer bought and paid for with cash and we were spending a whopping $20 a month (at the time) for our internet access. Poor people aren't allowed to spend $20 a month? That $20 a month is not going to make the difference between being poor and being middle class. I can understand complaining about poor people having the money for a cigarette habit but that's usually more than $20 a WEEK, not $20 a MONTH. Sure, little costs add up, but $20 for internet access is not going to change a person's financial situation significantly either way. Can we stop using internet access as proof that someone's not really poor or spending irresponsibly while poor?

Nope. That is $240 a year. I was always to cheap to throw that away.