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When I was 18, I committed a crime in upstate NY. It was adjudicated with a youthful offender status (discretion of the judge, and I'm deeply thankful that he decided the way he did.) After completion of probation and payment of restitution, the record was sealed. I was specifically instructed that I would legally be able to answer "no" to the question "have you ever been convicted of an offense."
Soon afterwards, I began talking to a Navy recruiter. I was not straightforward with her - I did not tell her that I was still on probation. I entered the DEP, got a MEPS physical, etc. I was still an grade A idiot at this point, but knew that eventually, the military would find out; I was incredibly afraid. I called the recruiter and told her that my plans had changed, and I could not ship.
Fast forward several years. I have had a number of jobs that called for local background checks in TX and PA - of course they came back clear. I have also had one national FBI background check due to a promotion at my previous employer that came back clear (it did not involve being fingerprinted, which I suspect would show something.)
I'm finishing up my bachelor's, and planning to apply to med school. I am very interested in the Army OCS, possibly the HPSP scholarship. But I know I have two major obstacles: a juvenile conviction, and the fact that I flaked out of the Navy enlistment 12 years ago.
Do I have any shot? To begin with, am I permanently barred from service due to exiting the DEP program? Are they waivering anyone with a sealed juvie conviction anymore?
I'm a recruiter. I'm not an expert on security clearances, but I've had TONS of applicants have flags on their security clearance once finger prints were run. They signed forms that said they'd never been charged with a crime, and told me they did it because a judge told them it would never show up. I don't know if anyone gets away with it (how would I know?) but often people do get caught, despite a judge telling them it would never show up. I don't even know how to tell you to check.
You have two options. 1. Listen to the judge. If you answer no, and it comes up in the background check, you may be able to ask for a waiver but you'll be looked at as a liar at that point. Or... you might get away with it.
Option 2 is be honest and try to get a waiver upfront.
The prior "flake" is not an issue. You don't even have to mention that.
As hard up as the military is for quality people, I'd say that you are shoo-in for OCS, but I recommend that you tell them up front, so that you can relax.
As hard up as the military is for quality people, I'd say that you are shoo-in for OCS, but I recommend that you tell them up front, so that you can relax.
That is somewhat wrong. There are a lot of people applying, a lot of them are qualified but the issues that we've been seeing are backgrounds. There are thousands of college graduates applying for OCS that don't have background issues.
I'm finishing up my bachelor's, and planning to apply to med school. I am very interested in the Army OCS, possibly the HPSP scholarship. But I know I have two major obstacles: a juvenile conviction, and the fact that I flaked out of the Navy enlistment 12 years ago.
Go for it!
No one here can really state with absolute accuracy what will happen.
Juvenile conviction? Guilty or not guilty (don't bother to say). Or was it the "withheld adjudication" which the Air Force would not accept to be Commissioned...
Good luck.
Last edited by Poncho_NM; 04-27-2015 at 08:19 PM..
Here is my experience being in a Army Recruiting battalion (I was the Operations Officer). Even if the judge said you don't have to tell anyone, you have to tell the Army. Here's why. The judge cannot seal the information they (including the arresting police department) sent to the FBI. The FBI has your fingerprints (taken from your original arrest) and they are now on file with them and their database will tell us what you were arrested for. We had individuals monthly come back as "matches"- a match is a person who didn't reveal an offense but the FBI information said otherwise (your fingerprint card is what we use). At that point, we had the right to automatically discharge you from the DEP. If we want to keep you, we have to ask for an exception AND depending on your crime, we have to run a waiver--- so two things need to be approved.
My experience tells me that the fact you didn't ship 12 years ago isn't going to be an issue. Your crime, and I don't need to know the details, was probably a misdemeanor. A single misdemeanor charge has a strong likelihood of being approved, if a waiver even needs to be run for it.
If you're looking to join the Army medical field and want to go to medical school, speak with an AMEDD recruiter. They deal specifically with professional medical fields (they work to commission doctors, nurses, etc, and not medics).
At the end of the day, honesty up front ALWAYS works in your favor. When you closely look at the question on the form, it covers the scenario where the "Judge said I didn't need to tell anyone". It just doesn't specifically say that-- it says something to the effect of, "regardless of disposition- whether the case was dismissed, expunged........"
No one here can really state with absolute accuracy what will happen.
Juvenile conviction? Guilty or not guilty (don't bother to say). Or was it the "withheld adjudication" which the Air Force would not accept to be Commissioned...
Good luck.
Thank you
It was as straight up Guilty plea directly to the judge. I spoke to an AMEDD recruiter and he told me that it would require a waiver, but that since I wasn't ready to apply, he couldn't really tell me how the climate would be next year.
Waivers and the chances for success can and will change over time. When recruiting is going well, they are harder to get. When recruiting is not going well, they are much easier to get. In the Army, we typically provide the most latitude because our recruiting is so much larger than the other services.
It's been several years since I have been in recruiting and things always change. However, my section processed every waiver for the battalion and it was my observation that the further the time lapse between the date one was trying to to enlist and the date of the offense/conviction typically worked in the applicants favor-- drug offenses didn't necessarily follow that same rule. Also, the accomplishments of the applicant also weighed heavily. In your case, graduating college and attending medical school would most certainly look favorable.
I'll say it again because it is important-- you have to be 100% honest with a recruiter. Trust me, they have heard it all and they aren't going to be shocked if you tell them you had an incident. But more importantly, they can control the situation and follow the necessary procedures. When something comes back, such as a criminal offense and conviction, all bets are off. Once you are a "match" your recruiter cannot influence the process. As I stated earlier, the process was to automatically discharge an applicant. We had to ask for an exception to keep them and they aren't always approved.
From my experience as an Army recruiter, in many cases where juvenile convictions were expunged or sealed, they would still show up when the SF-86 was run. As previously stated, the prior DEP loss is not an issue, does not even bare mentioning, and will not count against you. Level with the recruiter about the legal background, and they can then tell you where you stand.
I had a security clearance interview today (Currently I am in DEP program). I made a mistake (I was hungry and therefore quickly reading questions and didn't pay much attention to them) when originally I put answer "No" to the question "Have you ever voted?" in recruiters office, but today I said the truth to the OPM Federal Agent that once in my life I actually voted. Is it gonna be a problem?
I never intended to lie to the Government. In recruiter's office when I was originally filling out paperwork I was tired and bored by all these question and didn't take them seriously and therefore, made some tiny mistakes. The Federal Agent said that it should be no problem. What do you think?
P.S. I never been arrested, used drugs or something like that. I never had any problem with the law enforcements.
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