St Paul Demotion? (Minneapolis, St. Paul: shop, discount, companies)

[xandrex]

Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever

That's one value of the Green Line. It bridges most of those zones. The city is very wide. Minneapolis is tall and narrow. But the Green Line stands ready to knit it all together, with the help of other transportation advances. I'm reminded again of what I saw on the History Channel, how the Bronx wasn't even a neighborhood when they laid tracks out to it. Once the tracks were in, developers saw opportunity, and now you have a borough with a storied history. Transportation makes a very fundamental difference.

Yes, St. Paul definitely has an advantage here since the line runs roughly in the middle horizontally of a very short and wide city and goes through a fairly large portion to reach downtown. It should see a lot of growth. I think if a light rail or streetcar had been run on Central through to Nicollet (maybe then to the airport?) it would have a similar effect.

Although for the east side of St. Paul that doesn't have that connection, I wonder if means more disinvestment?

[StanleyVegas]

Originally Posted by xandrex

Although for the east side of St. Paul that doesn't have that connection, I wonder if means more disinvestment?

Those neighborhoods might not directly benefit, but I don't think they would be hurt by the LRT. The older eastside neighborhoods like Phalen and especially Dayton's Bluff are really not that far from Lowertown. Busses will connect as they would in any other neighborhood that's further from the green line - and there are many. I think the west side of Highland is actually closer to the blue line.

We live about 3/4 mile north of the capitol LRT station. If some of the benefit reaches up Rice St. to our area that would be great, but even if its limited to improving just down along University it would still be great. I've already seen a couple of new businesses open.

[Beenhere4ever]

Originally Posted by StanleyVegas

Those neighborhoods might not directly benefit, but I don't think they would be hurt by the LRT. The older eastside neighborhoods like Phalen and especially Dayton's Bluff are really not that far from Lowertown. Busses will connect as they would in any other neighborhood that's further from the green line - and there are many. I think the west side of Highland is actually closer to the blue line.

We live about 3/4 mile north of the capitol LRT station. If some of the benefit reaches up Rice St. to our area that would be great, but even if its limited to improving just down along University it would still be great. I've already seen a couple of new businesses open.

What could be done in the transportation sphere to benefit eastside? RBT up 35E?

[laxster]

Originally Posted by xandrex

I'm not really sure why we're "second class" just because an outdated department store closed in a downtown known for having little foot traffic outside the 9-5/government worker crowd.

I have to laugh at the "outdated" - the store was remodeled 10 years ago. It's hardly outdated at all. Though admittedly it was increasingly a poor fit. I liked it when it was Dayton's/Marshall Field's, even though through the hideous exterior. I think it's interesting how the MN World Trade Center had it as an anchor to their shopping mall, which is also now closed.

[Beenhere4ever]

I wouldnt say that it is so much Macy's bailing out, it is the failure of anything like Macy's moving in. What are the main retail destinations in downtown St Paul?

[laxster]

Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever

I wouldnt say that it is so much Macy's bailing out, it is the failure of anything like Macy's moving in. What are the main retail destinations in downtown St Paul?

As it turns more into a residential community, I don't know that we'll see destination shopping in downtown.

People here are quick to forget that Minneapolis is also losing Neiman Marcus. Mpls Macy's has also downscaled their offerings and outright cut out several floors of former retail space. City Center? Dead. Gavidae? Without the food court - half dead. Conservatory? Demolished. Block E? Dead.

The retail scene in either downtown isn't exactly bustling.

But Union Depot is a HUGE win for St Paul, assuming all the planned future light rail, high speed rail, and bus lines come together there.

[Beenhere4ever]

You mean all those billions to build sports arenas are just pointless?

[spectre000]

Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever

I wouldnt say that it is so much Macy's bailing out, it is the failure of anything like Macy's moving in. What are the main retail destinations in downtown St Paul?

There's a nice retail strip along St. Peter Street, from the Lowry Building to the Hamm Building. But most of it is either in the skyways or consists of art galleries in Lowertown. There just isn't much "shopping" in downtown. It would be nice to see more. But I think it's kind of a lost cause. St. Paul would do well to cater more towards the entertainment side of things. Bars, clubs, music and art venues. On that downtown St. Paul is doing very well. Places like Bin, Barrio's, Bulldog, Station 4, Amsterdam, and many others are doing quite well. The more upscale dining places like Heartland, Meritage, Pazzaluna, and Kincaids have proven very popular too.

There's lots of hope for a City Target in St. Paul. I don't really see Target being too enticed to move seeing as they have two Super Targets nearby (one on University Ave and the other on South Robert). What it really needs is more residents and office workers. Let's get 5,000 more people living downtown, and another 10-15,000 working there in all that vacant office space. After that, I think it could support a Target or more retail options.

[Beenhere4ever]

Hard to see downtown retail being a strong competitor, especially now that all bricks and mortar is fighting off the Internet's competition. I do think downtowns will be business and entertainment. Other than the casinos, entertainment is pretty rare outside of downtowns.

[xandrex]

Originally Posted by laxster

I have to laugh at the "outdated" - the store was remodeled 10 years ago. It's hardly outdated at all. Though admittedly it was increasingly a poor fit. I liked it when it was Dayton's/Marshall Field's, even though through the hideous exterior. I think it's interesting how the MN World Trade Center had it as an anchor to their shopping mall, which is also now closed.

I meant outdated not in actual design (though the exterior is hideous and definitely outdated), but instead in concept: People don't do nearly as much shopping at department stores anymore and they certainly don't go to downtown to go shopping at a department store. Other than the people within walking/busing distance (or who rely on public transportation for their sole means of motorized transport), it doesn't make sense to go downtown. Instead, they head out to one of the malls with a department store (and a lot of fast fashion, boutiques, chains, whatever) where they park for free and shop.

Downtown can't pull in big names like Macy's or Target until there is a critical mass of population living in the area who know it's easier to shop nearby rather than taking a 15 minute drive out to the suburbs. Even Minneapolis, with a lot more people living downtown is struggling with this. Until then, both downtowns should be focusing on boutiques and other interesting places that can't be found in the suburbs.