Bottineau is Now Light Rail - Blue Line Extension (Minneapolis: cul-de-sac, 2013)

[jaxontwinz]

Just saw that Bottineau Transitway will be light rail to the Target North Campus, chosen with the Locally Preferred Route (the one going into Theodore Wirth Park).

I know it is still proposed, but moving in the right direction. How are the locals feeling about it? Like it? It seems to me that there is so much development possibility along the last few stations leading up to the Target Campus. That development will be the best part of the project I think. There are several stations that could be similar to
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl around Portland MAX light rail stop.
or
https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl in Rockville, MD near Washington Metro.

The Twin Cities are developing a great light rail system, but they need to develop more around it in the suburbs, and this Bottineau route gives that great oppurtunity. And the development needs to be smart and denser. There shouldn't be cul-de-sacs near a station, but instead dense mixed-use projects.

Here is a decent article that says to compete with other cities, we can't just build the stations, we have to build urbanism too.
We Must Build More Transit and Better Urbanism | streets.mn

[ManBearPig1]

It's shameful how the chosen route totally bypasses the northside

[iNviNciBL3]

Its light rail tho,

those trains are soooo slow

[Bslette]

WHY? Why does it have to go through a park instead of a dense neighborhood with a commercial district where people would actually use it???? The Golden Valley Road Station is completely isolated, and no one lives by it. The Broadway/Penn Station would actually get a lot of use. The same thing goes for the Southwest Line bypassing Uptown. In what world are these good decisions?!?!? Please, someone explain to me why this is a good idea, or else I'll forever be angry at our city's planners.

People need the rail to get to work, not to visit the park. Not to be dropped off in the middle of an empty street.

FOR GOD'S SAKE. WHY DO WE NEED PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION RUNNING THROUGH A SWAMP INSTEAD OF A CITY????

Oh, because we want to deprive the people who really need public transportation of it. You know, it's really good publicity to have the light rail bypass the poor and minorities to serve the suburbs in the north. GAH. I'm extremely unhappy with this.

What is wrong with this world.

[jaxontwinz]

Ya, it really is disappointing that the routes are going to the middle of nowhere. The actual users of public transit are being skipped on this. And its not even like the route is helping the suburbanites more because of it. Really, no one is being helped in the area that they are going, through the park.

[jaxontwinz]

Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3

Its light rail tho,

those trains are soooo slow

Supposed to go from Brooklyn Park to Minneapolis in about 25-30 minutes, which isn't as awful as the other lines.

I really don't like that it takes trains 12 minutes to go from MOA to the airport. The airport to downtown in 25 is reasonable, but MOA to downtown in 40 minutes is not even worth it.

And the Central Corridor will take 40 minutes as well, to go 10 miles.... come on...

[Bslette]

Aren't planners supposed to be well educated about these things? Don't our city officials study these things? If they are only thinking about immediate cost, they really have no idea what they are doing. They go to school for this, yet when it comes time to make the real decisions that matter, they make the most ridiculous ones. In what world is this plan a good idea? Both plans. Skip Broadway Avenue and the dense neighborhoods of the Northside for a park? Skip Uptown, the Chain of Lakes and Hennepin Avenue for a freight rail viaduct? Skip neighborhoods by running the Hiawatha Line along a highway? Why aren't they making the logical decisions for the area? They are wasting time, money and resources building these new lines. If we are going to pay for them, build them right. We desperately need better mass transit, but to throw away our funding on lines that won't get half the ridership of their alternative routes is an unbelievably terrible decision. God, this is unbelievable. Is there any way for them to change their minds? Or is this permanent, no going back?

[jayhopethismeeturstandard]

I live about three blocks from where the proposed route will be going down Highway 55 and I must say that the locals (like myself) in the know are very excited to see if this will actually come to fruition. I'm currently in school for construction trades so hopefully I can get a job on this project if it is ever approved.

[DarkWolf]

Originally Posted by Bslette

Aren't planners supposed to be well educated about these things? Don't our city officials study these things? If they are only thinking about immediate cost, they really have no idea what they are doing. They go to school for this, yet when it comes time to make the real decisions that matter, they make the most ridiculous ones. In what world is this plan a good idea? Both plans. Skip Broadway Avenue and the dense neighborhoods of the Northside for a park? Skip Uptown, the Chain of Lakes and Hennepin Avenue for a freight rail viaduct? Skip neighborhoods by running the Hiawatha Line along a highway? Why aren't they making the logical decisions for the area? They are wasting time, money and resources building these new lines. If we are going to pay for them, build them right. We desperately need better mass transit, but to throw away our funding on lines that won't get half the ridership of their alternative routes is an unbelievably terrible decision. God, this is unbelievable. Is there any way for them to change their minds? Or is this permanent, no going back?

Most Transit Planners slap a few plans together and do not take in community feedback. There are a few that do , but they are rare these days. I do Transit Advocating in New Jersey and I attend the Meetings , work with the community by asking what they need and want and then send that up to one of the larger advocacy groups which then puts pressure on the state to expand the system into these neighborhoods , cities and towns... Ive noticed while our plans service the area or corridor perfect a transit planner will come in with very little knowledge propose something watered down and cheap and move on. Then due to their elitist mindset since most Transit advocates don't have a planning degree they will talk down to you as if your not important...and a battle between the advocates and planners ensue. In the Northeast , both sides have equal power when it comes to getting projects approve so we can stall projects intill their done right but thats only due to the fact that most groups are between 60 and 100 years old...and are rooted in politics... As of now due to the power of our groups and New Jersey has 6 of them with over 2000 advocates none of the proposed Railways with bypass anything....but it was a fight getting the state to do that.

Now back to the Twin Cities , I think we can both agree that they at least got the Central Corridor right , but I agree with you about the Hiawatha , and the Proposed Bottineau Line and even the Southwest line bypasses the dense areas vs a cheaper corridor... Its sad that their going this way with the system expansions , sure Ridership is projected between 30 and 45,000 for both expansions however choosing the denser route could easily push that to 60-80,000 per line if you factor in redevelopments. They also badly planned the Northstar line , it should have went to St. Cloud and should have serviced a more populated suburban corridor. Hopefully the Streetcar system fixes these bad planning wounds , you really can't screw up a streetcar network.

[jayhopethismeeturstandard]

Originally Posted by Bslette

WHY? Why does it have to go through a park instead of a dense neighborhood with a commercial district where people would actually use it???? The Golden Valley Road Station is completely isolated, and no one lives by it. The Broadway/Penn Station would actually get a lot of use. The same thing goes for the Southwest Line bypassing Uptown. In what world are these good decisions?!?!? Please, someone explain to me why this is a good idea, or else I'll forever be angry at our city's planners.

People need the rail to get to work, not to visit the park. Not to be dropped off in the middle of an empty street.

FOR GOD'S SAKE. WHY DO WE NEED PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION RUNNING THROUGH A SWAMP INSTEAD OF A CITY????

Oh, because we want to deprive the people who really need public transportation of it. You know, it's really good publicity to have the light rail bypass the poor and minorities to serve the suburbs in the north. GAH. I'm extremely unhappy with this.

What is wrong with this world.

Because building up and down such routes will require ripping up entire neighborhoods. Most of the community on Penn do not want the light rail going up their street.