Bottineau is Now Light Rail - Blue Line Extension (Minneapolis: neighborhoods, colleges)

[jaxontwinz]

Originally Posted by jayhopethismeeturstandard

Because building up and down such routes will require ripping up entire neighborhoods. Most of the community on Penn do not want the light rail going up their street.

Makes sense if they don't want it, then why not save the cost through the park. But, the residents have to realize that their community is a big, dense part of town that really would benefit them and the city.
If they don't want/never would use the light rail, then they won't get it. The chosen route was the LPA, let's just hope the residents don't regret it.

[ManBearPig1]

Originally Posted by jayhopethismeeturstandard

Because building up and down such routes will require ripping up entire neighborhoods. Most of the community on Penn do not want the light rail going up their street.

Not if you build underground

[Bslette]

Originally Posted by jayhopethismeeturstandard

Because building up and down such routes will require ripping up entire neighborhoods. Most of the community on Penn do not want the light rail going up their street.

That's an overstatement. It's ripping up one road. It's a uniformly gridded city for the most part, so people will be able to get around it. Sending it on an empty freight rail track is a waste of money, no matter what the community says (not that much of the community had their input acknowledged). Washington and University avenues survived the tearing up, and they are very major arteries.

[Mason3000]

Penn Ave N could use some ripping up.

[mn55110]

What puzzles me is the plan for years was to use the existing railroad tracks running parallel to Hennepin County Road 81, Bottineau Boulevard, hence the name Bottineau Light Rail, running through Osseo , Maple Grove and extending to Rogers .
Then at the last minute, the switch was made to alter course, go through Brooklyn Park and have the rail line end right at the Target Corporations Campus HQ along Highway 610 between Zane Avenue and West Broadway not traveling anywhere near Maple Grove, Arbor Lakes, Maple Grove Crossing, Boston Scientific 's corporate headquarters, Maple Grove Parkway, Minnesota's only Hindu Temple or Maple Grove Hospital.

[bbr1973]

Originally Posted by Bslette

That's an overstatement. It's ripping up one road. It's a uniformly gridded city for the most part, so people will be able to get around it. Sending it on an empty freight rail track is a waste of money, no matter what the community says (not that much of the community had their input acknowledged). Washington and University avenues survived the tearing up, and they are very major arteries.

Washington and University are wide thoroughfares. Penn Avenue North is 66 feet wide, and that's only because the boulevard strips were paved over in the late 1950s. It was originally just a leafy narrow residential street.

The Broadway/Penn alignment was dumb because it didn't get anywhere near the heart of West Broadway - that's more than a mile to the east. The route went through a primarily residential area. Broadway & Penn is a nascent commercial node, but that's about it. All it would have done is serve an area already well served by the 19, 14, and 7 bus lines. It would have "clipped" the north side rather than "serving" it. More than 80% of the land mass in North would have had very little use for the D2 alignment.

Furthermore, neither of the adjacent streets (Queen and Oliver) are through streets, so neither can act as an alternative (or as part of a one-way street pair). The street grid just doesn't work that way in Willard-Hay and Near North.

Nobody on Penn wanted to lose the ability to park in front of their homes, which was a given due to the limited street width. Removing all the homes on the west side of Penn would have left shallow property remnants that would invariably have required the subsequent demolition of properties on the east (even) side of Queen in order to make large enough parcels for redevelopment.

There was plenty of community involvement and input over the course of several years. I attended meeting after meeting; most of them at the University Research/Outreach Center on Plymouth Avenue were packed. It was an even split between those who favored the BNSF rail alignment and those who favored one of the several Broadway/Penn alignment variations.

[Bslette]

Originally Posted by bbr1973

Washington and University are wide thoroughfares. Penn Avenue North is 66 feet wide, and that's only because the boulevard strips were paved over in the late 1950s. It was originally just a leafy narrow residential street.

The Broadway/Penn alignment was dumb because it didn't get anywhere near the heart of West Broadway - that's more than a mile to the east. The route went through a primarily residential area. Broadway & Penn is a nascent commercial node, but that's about it. All it would have done is serve an area already well served by the 19, 14, and 7 bus lines. It would have "clipped" the north side rather than "serving" it. More than 80% of the land mass in North would have had very little use for the D2 alignment.

Furthermore, neither of the adjacent streets (Queen and Oliver) are through streets, so neither can act as an alternative (or as part of a one-way street pair). The street grid just doesn't work that way in Willard-Hay and Near North.

Nobody on Penn wanted to lose the ability to park in front of their homes, which was a given due to the limited street width. Removing all the homes on the west side of Penn would have left shallow property remnants that would invariably have required the subsequent demolition of properties on the east (even) side of Queen in order to make large enough parcels for redevelopment.

There was plenty of community involvement and input over the course of several years. I attended meeting after meeting; most of them at the University Research/Outreach Center on Plymouth Avenue were packed. It was an even split between those who favored the BNSF rail alignment and those who favored one of the several Broadway/Penn alignment variations.

Regardless of how major Penn Avenue is, or whether the line isn't going through the heart of West Broadway, it still makes much more sense to run it near Broaday, and give more access to that "heart" than it would if it were to run along a secluded BNSF track. This is public transportation we are talking about. It is meant to serve people, not trees and birds. Regardless of some of the the people's opinions about road constuction, it is a waste of money and time to go with the BNSF alignment. It is just simply better for the city and the neighborhood to give people acces to the light rail, not hide it from them. I almost think that it would make more sense to run it up 7th street to Lyndale, and then take out a small amount of Cub Foods' parking lot to make the turn on the West Broadway, and then run the light rail on West Broadway up to Bottineau. But, that would be more expensive initiallly since the sidewalks and road would have to be narrower, but it would pay off through ridership a lot more than the current route will, since it is serving Downtown, the North Loop, West Broadway, and North Memorial.

[queenswake]

Wow, this is a long line, and through an area not really full of businesses and definitely doesn't have the residential density. But I suppose this is how the areas around new lines in other cities were initially -- kind of looks like you are building a line to nowhere. This is really going to transform some somewhat blighted areas of the city with all of the development that will come with it. The area around the Target campus could really become a major commercial sector with more offices. And as another poster said, it's going to be a long trip poking along at light-rail speeds for that distance. It does makes me wonder how much it will be used as compared to the Hiawatha line. The thing is, traffic in the northern suburbs is nothing compared to in the south and in Minneapolis itself. There is not yet an incentive to park the car and use public transit like this to commute to work if traffic was the only factor. Saving money on parking downtown, etc, yes. The bus rapid transit currently is utilized, but not to the extent as it is in the southern suburbs.

Interesting news. But by the time this is actually built, the need for it will likely be greater.

[MPLS_TC]

This light has how many stops in north minneapolis?

[bbr1973]

Originally Posted by MPLS_TC

This light has how many stops in north minneapolis?

It depends on your definition. The Golden Valley Road/Wirth Parkway stop would serve some north Minneapolis residents, but is actually in Golden Valley. If it's decided to put a stop at Plymouth Avenue (it's been batted around), that's in Golden Valley too but is a stone's throw from parts of Willard-Hay.

The Penn/Hwy. 55 stop is definitely north Minneapolis, as is the Van White/Hwy. 55 stop.