Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
As for the 'what ever' remark. How Fargo of you!! I also take that common response around here indicating a lack of speaking and writing skills to further express one's opinion.
Believe me, I was biting my tongue. I understand that the 'what ever' comment was indeed childish (as far as you know, I could be a child, in reality) I took your post as being completely arrogant, and, I will add, an insult to myself, my friends, and everyone else that I hold dear in Minneapolis.
As for Fargo; I have only been there once, ma'am, and I was just driving through.
In my case, my own "little circle" is the end result of 18 years of growing up in the Twin Cities, going to college in a nearby town (Mankato in my case), and then living in the Twin Cities for another 15+ years, and it's actually in college where I met perhaps half of my inner circle of friends. We're all mostly still in touch, even after 20-25 years.
The rest are folks I met growing up, met at work, met through other friends, or met via my wife, with a couple of exceptions picked up through common activities.
Of course, I'm in Atlanta now, but I still have a general question: how did you (or other folks in this thread) end up trying to meet people?
You generally have to have something in common with someone in order to click, and simple physical proximity usually isn't enough.
For me, it doesn't take much to get my attention; if I find you interesting at all, I'll talk. But I need something to actually catch my attention in order to be interested long-term because I already have a few dozen other people wanting a small part of my schedule, and I also value my alone time (and my time with my wife!).
Not everyone who is in an established circle and an established relationship or family has the time to do much beyond saying hello and engaging in surface social niceties. That's an unfortunate thing at times, but it's also reality.
I think that is it - you were from Minnesota and more attractive (culturally) to others from here, than those of us from elsewhere. As mentioned before, there's an insularity to the area which deems the rest of us as "suspect." It's been the experience of many "outsiders" that people are just plain afraid to get to know us.
Example: this happened in 2002. A man in the Lowry Hill area of Mpls had a problem with his neighbor's tree - some branches were growing into his yard, creating a shade problem. I'll call the one with the tree Tree and the one with the shade problem Shade. Shade knew everything about Tree from his OTHER neighbors - all of whom were born and raised in Minnesota. He never talked with Tree. Shade knew Tree was a professor at U of Minnesota, knew he taught in Europe during the summers, knew what country he was from. Shade would never speak directly with Tree, only Shade left Tree three notes, telling him he wanted the tree cut down. Then Shade decided he would cut down the tree when Tree was in Europe the coming summer. (An ethical columnist person intervened since this came from a local neighborhood paper). The columnist suggested Shade talk directly with Tree since Shade was treating Tree as if Tree did live in a foreign county.
I'll continue with my part. I responded with an editorial to that paper, which really ruffled some feathers.
However, the point is is that in many neighborhoods, people will meet their neighbors, welcome them, and talk to them on occasion. You met people here since you grew up with them, your wife grew up with them, and you both were from the area. I repeat, the insularity of Minnesotans doesn't allow them to want to get to know people from outside the beloved boundaries of the state.
Since you moved to Atlanta, how did you meet people? Were your neighbors welcoming? Were you co-workers welcoming? Include you in once in a while? I would think so if you are still there.
A cousin moved from San Diego to the DC area when she was in her 30s. She has certainly met people, and has formed relationships, even at that age. My nephew's cousin (at the time age 18) started at a college in Minnesota (she's from Delaware) and left after a month. Ended up in Eastern Pennsylvania for school. She said no one would talk to her, want to form relationships, etc. She said it all seemed as if they had known each other before they got there. She majored in sociology. I wonder why.
It's one thing to have an established circle, but not wanting to expand that a little is most unfortunate. I would bet that many in this forum are in their 20s and 30s. I still consider that a good time to form new relationships. The fact remains that Minnesota and many Minnesotans live in a closed society and are not interested in expanding their little world.
But, I am still curious if you and your Minnesota wife met people in Atlanta who were interested in doing more than just seeing you at work. Did one at all invite you over when you were new to town? Or sometime later, not years later? Or do you and your wife pretty much go home after work, go about your business, and have really no one to associate with on a friendly basis outside of work? That is pretty much what we do here, if we're not from here.
I think the problem with many from this area is that they are fair weather people - they only want to be around in good times, and if something happens, well they can't handle it, so they don't want to get to close. And, not so good things will happen with people - someone's mother may die during the relationship, someone may have differences in opinion on the politics of the day, someone may need help with a dead battery. (A former neighbor from this area boasted about all her friends, but when she had a dead battery - which was usually several times a winter due to her old car - she always had to call a towing company - her friends were unavailable. Interesting.) I have found many people from here to not be able to discuss differences in opinion - that is being confrontational, and it is a rule and well known that Minnesotans can not handle conflict.
FWIW, we don't invite that many people to our home, and I've never been to the homes of many of the folks I've know, even folks that I've considered very good friends for many years.
Perhaps what you're seeing is little more than a difference in culture?
My wife and I have a life of our own, we're both somewhat private people, we're both very poor at housecleaning (so our house is usually quite cluttered), and having a guest over (especially for the first time) results in a lot of fuss and bother.
When we get together with friends, it's usually either at some outside location, or it's at the house of friends we have in common who actually LIKE to entertain and have better facilities available for doing such. We don't, usually, unless the house has actually been cleaned first.
That pattern seems to be true of many of the people we know, both up in the Twin Cities and down here in Atlanta.
The lack of invitations might have nothing to do with you at all, but might just reflect the way those people are. I admit that I find the expectation to be invited to someone's home to be just a bit strange. Why would you expect that?
Just my two cents.
Minnesotans have a thing about allowing others to see the inside of their homes. I have a neighbor whom I have invited in after an outside discussion about computer systems, and shared my system with them - showed them how it works and allowed them to use it at that time. They were quite interested. It must a privacy thing that Minnesotans have been taught, and retaught over the years. I'm from Delaware. My sister could be sitting in the livingroom with me (when I'm visiting - this happened one day) and her son was in the basement with a few friends. A friend's mom (neighbor) came into the livingroom and asked my sister something. It was no big deal. They had shared the neighborhood for many years, but I've lived in this area for 13 years. I can't even get that same neighbor, who used my computer system, to open her door more than a crack when talking with me. My landlord knows I feel very comfortable if he needs to be inside (maintenance problem, etc.) and I'm not there. He does call first. I could give a rat's ass about not being there. Perhaps people here are a lot more private than in other parts of the country, but it doesn't make for good relationships. At least you and your wife are invited to someone's house. I have spent many holidays alone here, in my own space, although I've known people here for years. It seems to be an Upper Midwestern family thing - you just don't invite people over for a meal, especially a holiday meal if those people are not a part of one's family. I NEVER encountered this in Richmond and Northern Virginia. If someone asks what I was doing for a holiday (and that was ALWAYS before the holiday*), and I said I was staying home, I was looked at as if I were nuts, and next thing I knew was invited to not just their home, but even a parents' home. (Example: This happened when I was in Richmond in 2001, temporarily. I knew my neighbor for less than 1 month. Four days before Thanksgiving, I was asked the question, and her parents EXPECTED me at her house. We had a wonderful time. We talked about unions, and other matters which Northerners and Southerners may still have differences of opinion, but we had the best time. Minnesotans, frankly, would just sit there and not mention a sound. And, this always happened while living in Richmond for ten years in prior years.) But, it is just not a Scandinavian thing here, although I feel their presence is so strong to have permeated the area with their cultural oddities. My supervisor is 100% Italian, as am I. He's from Minneapolis, I've learned from a co-worker. My supervisor has not uttered more than ten words to me, although I have gone to him and directly asked him things, which have earned the respect of the team, since they stay away. I have never met an Italian somewhere else who isn't a little congenial, friendly, gregarious, and welcoming, nor have I never met someone who really did not like us, except in Minnesota. This guy is as stiff as board. Stoic was the term used by a different employee, from a different country. And, it has pretty much clinched my decision to leave the area within the next year, since if he can't even open up, be a little curious as to where I came from (he didn't interview me; two other women did, however he chose me from the lot with two other new hires) - as someone wrote in Minnesota Monthly back in the summer 2001, "there is a meanness in people here that doesn't exist in people from other states. Minnesotans need to loosen up a bit and just start enjoying life.
*Holiday: I have found it most interesting that in the several places I've lived in this country, only in Minnesota was I asked AFTER the holiday, "So, what did you do on Thanksgiving, etc." When I would reapply, I stayed home, then the person would say, "Oh, you should have come over?" in that sickening whiny sing song voice so common around here. Yet, I had been in conversation with these people for months before, they would talk all about their big holiday preparations, and yet, could never ask about my plans BEFORE the holiday? That's right. They didn't want to be in the position to be genuinely nice (not that Minnesota Nice bull crap) and invite me over. This has happened with many people, not just one. It's a pattern here. And, it is not NICE. I would be better off, and much more appreciative, if they just didn't even bother asking later.
You think Minnesotans are fair wether people? That would demonstrate a profound misunderstanding of this state. It is harder here to meet people than San Diego or Phila., but once you know a Minnesotan. I mean really know a bona fide Minnesotan, they will help you commit crimes. That is why it is harder to get to know us, we have to know you first. Because, when we do know you, we will be there. It is not dissimilar from an Aussie mate. Mpls. is not the place for facades and surface commoradity. That is San Diego, or Phila., or most other places. If you hit **** bottom, it doesn't matter how many acquaintences you have; it matters how many of them care. In Mpls., it you have two friends, two people care. This isn't to say other people don't care, but it is not as strong. If your car battery is perpetually dying, it is not the honace of a friend to try to get an hour off work to come fix it. It isn't like it died every Friday evening as to become an impetus for activity that night. You know what, though? People in Mpls. will get on all fours to push a stranger's car out of the snow if they are available to do so. I have done so multiple times. I'm sorry you had holiday alone, but Thanksgiving and Christmas is family time and I think you know that.
You think Minnesotans are fair wether people? That would demonstrate a profound misunderstanding of this state. It is harder here to meet people than San Diego or Phila., but once you know a Minnesotan. I mean really know a bona fide Minnesotan, they will help you commit crimes. That is why it is harder to get to know us, we have to know you first. Because, when we do know you, we will be there. It is not dissimilar from an Aussie mate. Mpls. is not the place for facades and surface commoradity. That is San Diego, or Phila., or most other places. If you hit **** bottom, it doesn't matter how many acquaintences you have; it matters how many of them care. In Mpls., it you have two friends, two people care. This isn't to say other people don't care, but it is not as strong. If your car battery is perpetually dying, it is not the honace of a friend to try to get an hour off work to come fix it. It isn't like it died every Friday evening as to become an impetus for activity that night. You know what, though? People in Mpls. will get on all fours to push a stranger's car out of the snow if they are available to do so. I have done so multiple times. I'm sorry you had holiday alone, but Thanksgiving and Christmas is family time and I think you know that.
It's family time, and only family time, in the North Star State, or at least in the Twin Cities and surrounding areas. As I wrote previously, these holidays were never considered "only family time" when I lived in Richmond and Northern Virginia. Frankly, I believe it is indicative of the entire Upper Midwest region, since I noticed similarities while in Milwaukee for one year. Don't tell me what I know and don't know. For you, your Minnesota family, their married in relatives, and all the other people you've known for years on end, your doors and tables are available, but not to others from elsewhere, even if you have know those others for years. I don't think you want to get it, and probably never will. But, perhaps you will always think of this when you are sitting with all the other people around you and wonder about those people you've known for quite some time, but never seem to be able to really invite them into your little group, even if that is a family group. Tell me, when Minnesotan marriages fall apart, do you totally forget the other family, as if they never existed, including the cousins who spent time together and little children from the other side, since it seems to fit in here you have to marry into the culture. I have two sisters who were divorced. The remaining siblings still, as did the the divorced ones, maintain friendly relations with the other families. We as a family knew the one former son-in-law and his family before the marriage, through the marriage, and still kept in touch with his family after the marriage. My sister had a very good relationship with her in-laws after the marriage and was recently invited, and went, to a former in-law's wedding recently. A Minnesotan may push someone's car out of the snow - we do that on the East Coast, too - then part ways, as they do in Minnesota. I don't expect to become best friends with someone who gets me out of a snow jam. However, it would be nice if neighbor's acted more friendly, co-workers took an interest in their other co-workers besides the ones who were here for the Halloween blizzard of 1991, and relationships continued after the semester's classes ended.
getting back to the original post... I think it depends how old you are. I know this post regards making friends, but I think it's also tied into being single as well. It's interesting to note you are from LA. When I was in LA, I noticed alot of middle aged people out at bars and clubs like younger folk here. Not that middle aged people don't go out here, but not to the extent of LA or NY. I think people in MN tend to be more family oriented. We tend to go crazy till around 25-30 then we get married and disapear from the scene. There's a hint of stigma here about being mature (30-50) and single that I don't think exists on the coasts. Alot of people grew up here and never left, so I think some feel pressure within family circles to "settle down," therefore a social life takes a back seat to kids and spouse. People here get focused on family/career and the rest just kind of goes to hell.
getting back to the original post... I think it depends how old you are. I know this post regards making friends, but I think it's also tied into being single as well. It's interesting to note you are from LA. When I was in LA, I noticed alot of middle aged people out at bars and clubs like younger folk here. Not that middle aged people don't go out here, but not to the extent of LA or NY. I think people in MN tend to be more family oriented. We tend to go crazy till around 25-30 then we get married and disapear from the scene. There's a hint of stigma here about being mature (30-50) and single that I don't think exists on the coasts. Alot of people grew up here and never left, so I think some feel pressure within family circles to "settle down," therefore a social life takes a back seat to kids and spouse. People here get focused on family/career and the rest just kind of goes to hell.
I disagree with the career part. Focus on family, yes, but not career. A study was done several years ago - I heard the little blip on one of those 10 minute news spots on CBS radio - I have been trying to find the exact study. The study's authors wanted to know what the marriage entry age was for different parts of the country. The Northeast ranked dead last - that is those persons delayed marriage the latest - late 20s. West Coast came second last. South and Midwest ranked first - married at the earliest ages. The authors' also determined that education was the main reason - those on the West and East Coasts were pursuing college and advanced education, delaying marriage until later. (My cousin just got married. Lives in Maryland. Works for the Feds, as does her new husband, and I am not really at liberty to say what departments. However, they are both 26. She's, at the government's insistence, is working on a masters. Because of their classified positions and grad school requirements, they are not able to take honeymoons yet. So, they wait. Also, back East, even 25 years ago, if you were offered a transfer to a different office location - say a few states away or across the country - you took it. It didn't look good otherwise. I don't think that would go well in Minnesota. Too much emphasis on family and not on careers. I've been in Minneapolis for 13 years. I really can't agree that many folks from here are working on their careers - maybe at their jobs, but certainly not careers. When I hear careers, I think of those careers you start after you attend college and graduate school. As much as many native Minneapolitans would like to suggest, the standards here for attending, finishing college, and going on to grad school are not as high as in a few other parts of this country. (A coworker recently mentioned that she was quite impressed to have learned that in many Northeast cities, you need a four year degree to be an admin assistant.) I mentioned this in a different post - Minnesota - agree or not - is still about 20 years behind for insisting that its children go to college. And, since I post on New Mexico, learning about the area as a possible relocation place, I am pleased to read that for a particular state job (one that I do right now in Minnesota - same exact position for public assistance - only by a different name) that the New Mexico job requires a bachelor's degree - in any field - but the minimum education requirements are the bachelor's. My current job does not require that - they want either some education or work experience or a combination of the two, but do not require it. So much for Minnesota high standards. And, that lower standard really does show among its workers - not the foreign ones in the job (they have the degrees) but the native whites who lack the education - they can't spell, they can't do math, they can't write a clean email, their grammar is atrocious. If Minneapolis, especially, really wants to be a Manhattan, a DC, a Boston, or a San Fran, I think it should require more at the door with regards to education. And, from what I can hear, people here really want to be like all those other places. New York became fashionable after the 9/11 attacks. More and more folks from here now want to see our East Coast (I was raised there). Prior to 9/11, it was thought of as far away as the rings of Saturn, and those of us from there feel like we are living on Pluto, although paying rent or mortgages in the Twin Cities.
Brantacanadensis --first, paragraphs are your friend
second, Minnesota is a highly educated state with a STRONG emphasis on education. There is a reason our schools rank number one in the nation. Your VERY limited experience in our state and your very limited KNOWLEDGE of our state is contrary to what really goes on here. The VAST majority of non-service jobs require at least a BA if not an MA of some type--just look at the classified section of the newspaper to see what the requirements are. Just because your menial job does not require a college degree does NOT mean that the rest of the state is the same. For your meager income it does not surprise me-heck, the bus drivers in our town make more then what you make SO, don't judge the rest of the state on your limited experience.
Having spent MANY years, probably close to as many years as you have been alive, dealing with people from all over the country, the upper Midwest is FAR more educated as a whole then most areas of the country.
I'm not surprised you hail from the Upper Midwest and Minnesota with your personal remarks about my so-called menial job and limited experience. I work for the government, and those wages are lower. Obviously, with the kind of inflammatory personal remarks you made regarding my employment and type of work I do, it only is proof that many people from where you are from are not very intelligent, are narrow-minded, and think so much of yourselves to consider the rest of us working in menial jobs. As for bus drivers and garbage collectors, they make more than what I make, too. I know that, but they don't get far without the education. Don't base just our intelligence on what me make. That's arrogant behavior, but many people from here take the cake for arrogance. Don't base our so-called limited experience on what we make. I have been here for 13 years. I wouldn't call that very limited exposure. I have lived in the city for 12 of those 13 years - a suburb for only one year since the suburb was more insulated than the city. I have seen a lot here, and it isn't MINNESOTA NICE, its MINNESOTA ICE and plain rude behavior.
Your schools don't rank number one in the nation. If so, then why is that I never see in the weekly news magazine rankings any school from your beloved Minnesota (check them out; its true). In fact, more than half were from below the Mason Dixon line. Minnesotans always love to act is if there is no place like home and your schools are the greatest. I even heard many home grown white folks from around here comment that the schools are going downhill due to the number of "foreigners" in them now. If that bothers your and other white Minnesotans, then why don't you just spend the damned money for a private education, like many people do on the East Coast. And, they don't have any more money than anybody else. They put their kids in a parochial school, live in the city limits, and have mothers and fathers at so-called menial jobs - police officers and firemen. But, Minnesotans would never do that since they just couldn't stomach to spend the additional money. Minnesotans don't like paying for anything, and they certainly don't like paying for an education, which is why they whine in their sing songy voices all the time about the high costs of college.
If Minnesota is so highly educated, it may very well be to the number of OUT OF STATE people who relocated to Minnesota, which includes Iowa and those from Wisconsin (read: got an education at Madison) and everyone else from the coasts.
Isn't it interesting how only many Minnesotans such as yourself cannot make an interesting point, a point backed up with facts, and only can make negative remarks concerning someone's job, like the one who got two
threads closed down for her personal attacks.
Perhaps you should ask your other non-Minnesota coworkers about this forum and what they think about the culture in the area. Ask people outside of this forum. There are plenty right in your neighborhood.
Perhaps the administrator should just close this forum since people like you have to criticize people for the jobs they do. And where do you work - private sector - where you where your pant legs dragging on the ground (hey now you don't have to spend the money to get them hemmed, but many people around here never did anyhow) or with skirts up to your white ass. Even if you're not a whitebread, you certainly have picked up the traits.
And, where do you spend your income - at the local bar with all your friends from grade school? THINK ABOUT WHO YOUR FRIENDS ARE NEXT TIME YOUR ARE WITH THEM. ARE THEY ALL FROM MINNESOTA? AND I DON'T MEAN FRIENDS AT WORK. I MEAN PEOPLE YOU GET TOGETHER WITH OUTSIDE OF WORK. DO YOU HAVE ANYONE IN YOUR LIFE WHO IS NOT A MINNESOTA BORN AND BRED PERSON?
I certainly hope with these comments, this thread is shut down.
Brantacanadensis --first, paragraphs are your friend
second, Minnesota is a highly educated state with a STRONG emphasis on education. There is a reason our schools rank number one in the nation. Your VERY limited experience in our state and your very limited KNOWLEDGE of our state is contrary to what really goes on here. The VAST majority of non-service jobs require at least a BA if not an MA of some type--just look at the classified section of the newspaper to see what the requirements are. Just because your menial job does not require a college degree does NOT mean that the rest of the state is the same. For your meager income it does not surprise me-heck, the bus drivers in our town make more then what you make SO, don't judge the rest of the state on your limited experience.
Having spent MANY years, probably close to as many years as you have been alive, dealing with people from all over the country, the upper Midwest is FAR more educated as a whole then most areas of the country.
I forgot to mention. Would you call my cousin's job menial since she started out with the federal government less than $29,000/year? She graduated from Georgetown. She got a highly classified position with a federal snoop agency. She's now making in her low 40s. Her husband is doing about the same, with a similar position with the federal government. They are starting out in their mid 20s. I wouldn't call their jobs menial jobs, despite their low wages, since their jobs have taken them to the Middle East, London (to spend six months at a time) and a few other places. But, you as a Minnesotan could never accept a job like that. You wouldn't make it home for dinner.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
) I took your post as being completely arrogant, and, I will add, an insult to myself, my friends, and everyone else that I hold dear in Minneapolis.
But I need something to actually catch my attention in order to be interested long-term because I already have a few dozen other people wanting a small part of my schedule, and I also value my alone time (and my time with my wife!).
