Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I forget the figure, but I once saw an estimate of how much the state makes off of taxes on pro football salaries and other money which would not exist otherwise (i.e. factoring out the "well if we don't have football I'll just spend my money on pull tabs" factor). It came to a pretty good chunk of change, enough that the state could actually make money off the stadium over a 20 year period. There's also the intangible benefit of having a pro football team in keeping the corner office guys in fortune 500 companies happy and stuff like that ... its hard enough to draw top talent to the Twin Cities.
Not that I *like* welfare for billionaires, but I think they have us over a barrel here. The whole system needs to be reworked so the franchises have to compete against each other instead of states and municipalities competing against each other, but that bridge was crossed in the 19th century when Delaware sold its sole to Rockefeller and started this whole competition racket.
The numbers the stadium proponents are quoting for annual state tax revenues (sales, income, liquor) is $21 million, those revenues would not exist at all without the Vikings being here. The Vikings leave and the state will look for other means (notably you) to make-up that shortfall or do away with even less for the schools and roads that most of the opponents have got their undies in a bunch over.
That doesn't include the $9.5 million in local city and county taxes (sales, entertainment, restaurant, hotel, liquor) that the Vikings operations account for. Nor does it include the other $4 million that non-Viking events at the Metrodome contributes to the tax base. Nor does it include the $734 million in construction spending that will take place in Minnesota. Or the 7,500 construction jobs generating $286 million in wages during the three years of construction. Or the 3,400 workers that will be supported by the new stadium once completed.
Before we had three sporting teams in one stadium (Twins, Vikings, and Gopher football). I agree that the dome is a dump and I'd rather watch games on TV versus that concrete eye sore. I love to go to Wild games because the stadium is 1st class. It’s fun to see pro athletes perform near super human feats. But that doesn’t mean I want other people to pay for my pet project.
Now we have a new Twins stadium, a new Gopher Stadium. What's next?? People want another stadium for football! If they made a compromise a few years back having a new stadium for all three teams that would make a lot more sense. I know…. each field style is designed specifically for that venue. But they have p_issed away hundreds of millions already. If gambling etc, makes sense then do it and put it in the general fund and reduce our taxes.
I like occasionally watching the Vikings too and would rather have them around than leave but it's insane to build another stadium for football only. We are talking about a dozen total games out of 365 days a year. There are only so many venues that will fill the Gopher Stadium, Twins Stadium, and Metrodome. I’m not buying that they can keep it full (a.k.a. make enough money).
People are misguided on the economics of professional sports teams. If the Vikings left, the shopping malls would be fuller, different restaurants would be patronized versus specific ones around the stadium, movie theaters might be fuller etc. In other words, just because they left does not mean that we lose the economic benefit. People won’t just stop moving and spending for the three hours on Sunday during football season. It’s easy to measure the benefit of a Sunday game at the Dome. It’s impossible to measure where those dollars went if no one watched their team in a stadium
I guess what I am saying I don’t want to subsidize your passion by being taxed on something that is a net loss especially since we just built two others! States have to stop caving into the pressure of Billionaires asking for handouts. When they get that handout, their team is worth hundreds of millions more. Since owners don’t have to pay for the majority of the stadium, they have a lot more $$’s to overpay their employees (players). That’s one reason why the sport hero’s of the 50’s-70’s got paid well but not the massive bucks. The players are therefore factually subsidized because their employer got a stadium for a fraction of the price
While we are on the subject, could someone please explain to me what makes the “Minnesota” Vikings Minnesotan??? Is it because 7 or 8 games are played in the state?? Why all the passion on if “we” win??? After all where do the owners live? Did the players grow up in MN?? I enjoy watching amazing plays by professional athletes as well (they don’t need to be the “Minnesota” Vikings). So I guess I’m asking, deep down, why would you really care if they left???
They are Minnesotan because they are the Minnesota Vikings and it's a home pride type of thing. Yes, they like all NFL teams could be sold and moved somewhere else and then they wouldn't be the Mn Vikings.
Dig deeper (I'm looking for some honesty). Why do you have pride for this team. Do you know any of the players? Did they grow-up in MN? Is the owner from here? If the owner threatens to leave every-so-often because he wants a new stadium (to be realigned because he has a contract) why do you have loyalty to him and the team that HE owns?? I hate to break this to you but the Vikings are Ziggy Wilf's team not yours.
Now if you said you love to to watch World Class athletes compete I get that. If you enjoy looking at the stats or enjoy the atmosphere of catching a game etc. I get that too.
But "it's a home pride thing" seems silly to drop hundreds of millions on of tax payers money because you have a "pride thing going". They p_issed away their opportunity to make a stadium for at least a couple of the teams. Now they want their own for 8-10 games. Don't you find that economically stupid?
The numbers the stadium proponents are quoting for annual state tax revenues (sales, income, liquor) is $21 million, those revenues would not exist at all without the Vikings being here. The Vikings leave and the state will look for other means (notably you) to make-up that shortfall or do away with even less for the schools and roads that most of the opponents have got their undies in a bunch over.
That doesn't include the $9.5 million in local city and county taxes (sales, entertainment, restaurant, hotel, liquor) that the Vikings operations account for. Nor does it include the other $4 million that non-Viking events at the Metrodome contributes to the tax base. Nor does it include the $734 million in construction spending that will take place in Minnesota. Or the 7,500 construction jobs generating $286 million in wages during the three years of construction. Or the 3,400 workers that will be supported by the new stadium once completed.
You pull off numbers from a website promoting the stadium. They must be accurate then.
It's it's such a great business deal, why does the state and county have to get involved to build them a new stadium?? As I have said several times. They blew their opportunity to combine at least a couple stadiums into one. The math will never work to spend multi-hundred millions of $$'s for 8-10 games (and a Monster Truck ralley or two to boot). Those who buy into that crap are blinded by purple. I'll also bet their personal finances are in a train reck as well but that's just a gut feeling.
As I said before. When people are spending money on a restaurant, hotel, liquor, tickets etc they cannot be in two places at once. So by definition, they are spending less money on restaurants, liquor, bowling, movies, clothes, lawn chairs etc somewhere else. When you find those numbers in the "Economic Impact" then you can appreciate my point.
OK, so the only money we can be sure about are the taxes ($30.5 million). I'm discounting the other stuff because they can go to other venues for the most part, and the jobs/construction spending are based on taxpayer funding - which could just as easily (and more profitably in the long run) be spent on infrastructure, schools, and so on, or just not spent at all [since its not the state's money, really]. The rest is pie-in-the-sky as far as I'm concerned. If the Klauskies from Minot don't come for the football game they'll come some other time for the Mall of America and the Guthrie while visiting relatives in Bloomington.
Assuming 20 years, that comes to $610 million, 2/3 of which goes to the state and 1/3 to local taxing authorities. To break even, the state has to kick in around $400 million and local governments the balance of that.
I really think a stadium should have been part of Mall of America, to be honest...
If the Twin Cities didn't have the Vikings (and Twins for that matter), I would be out of here. Why go through all this cold weather and other **** we have to deal with if you don't got your home town teams to root after. Loyalty to the Twins and Vikings are the sole reason many people just don't pick up and leave this frigid tundra.
Like it or not, sports teams put cities on the map. Take away the Vikings and Twins (and TWolves, Wild, and Gophers to a lesser degree) and the Twin Cities would be as well known as powerhouse cities such as Toledo, Fargo, Omaha, Fort Wayne, and Grand Rapids. The reason the Twin Cities are as powerful as they are, have as many Fortune 500 companies remain here as we do, have as many facilities as we do, is because the Vikings, North Stars, and Twins put us on the map.
I to prefer the Vikings to stay. If they had a new stadium I probably would see a game every so often.
I also agree that sports teams help "put a city on the map". But somehow in the past we as a society figured out how to keep it in check. There use to be a time where the people who wanted the stadium paid for it (owners and ticket sales). And the stadiums were multi sport purpose arena's. They were nice but not over the top.
In the past 10 or so years, each project gets bigger and better. Now we are the point where it won't support itself without public financing. The stadiums now serve as a shrine to the city. I even get that point of view (the staduim is a pride thing). All I'm saying is let's be rational. How about one "Shrine" if you are asking for money to pay for this from the public. I'm saying enough is enough. I hope it fails because they were not being even a little frugal and three stadiums is plain stupid. If if the Vikings leave I guess that means some people will also leave. but if they stay and yet more taxes get piled on other business and people they too will be leaving.
One of the many concepts the stadium opponents seem to be unable to grasp is the notion that the stadium will not be "given to" the Vikings. The Vikings will have no ownership in the facility. Primarily the reason that the team is unwilling to contribute to the cost ($200M) of the roof. A public commission will own and run the venue.
The Metrodome held about 300 events per year (including Twins games) and it's likely a new venue would see an increase in those events including concerts, trade shows, local college and high-school events, regional and national NCAA tourneys, national conventions, etc. The Metrodome made a profit and the public funding long ago was paid back and was used to finance the Convention Center as well.
I would like to see a retractable roof stadium get built downtown and believe that the Metrodome can not provide the revenue stream the Vikings need to stay competitive. I am more encouraged about the prospect of that occurring with the surprising recent activity occurring in the Legislature as well as the opposition by those legislators (as well as the public) ebbing towards the realization that there is a way to get the funding without using the general tax fund to finance the stadium.
The Vikings have identified their contribution as 1/3 the cost for a non-roofed facility or about $235M. That pctg. is virtually the same as what the Twins contributed ($195M) to Target Field. However, for this effort to gain the momentum that will be needed, the Vikings will have to recognize the need for the roof to be included to make the facility viable for 365 day operation and up their contribution accordingly.
You can bank that if the Vikings leave, in four or five years the clamor to get another team will begin again at an even higher cost. Just like it did for basketball and hockey. Instead of keeping a relatively successful franchise, the replacement ends up being less than what we already had.
OK, so the only money we can be sure about are the taxes ($30.5 million). I'm discounting the other stuff because they can go to other venues for the most part, and the jobs/construction spending are based on taxpayer funding - which could just as easily (and more profitably in the long run) be spent on infrastructure, schools, and so on, or just not spent at all [since its not the state's money, really]. The rest is pie-in-the-sky as far as I'm concerned. If the Klauskies from Minot don't come for the football game they'll come some other time for the Mall of America and the Guthrie while visiting relatives in Bloomington.
Assuming 20 years, that comes to $610 million, 2/3 of which goes to the state and 1/3 to local taxing authorities. To break even, the state has to kick in around $400 million and local governments the balance of that.
I really think a stadium should have been part of Mall of America, to be honest...
Agree. However, the MSFC (Metrodome owners) protected their downtown interests in a land swap with the MOA. When swapping the Met Center site with the parcel to the East of the MOA (virtually unusable with the new runway), the MOA agreed not to use the Met Center site for a football stadium.
You pull off numbers from a website promoting the stadium. They must be accurate then.
Let's see your figures then, you won't find them because there isn't any credible evidence to refute what I posted.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If they made a compromise a few years back having a new stadium for all three teams that would make a lot more sense. I know…. each field style is designed specifically for that venue. But they have p_issed away hundreds of millions already. If gambling etc, makes sense then do it and put it in the general fund and reduce our taxes.
After all where do the owners live? Did the players grow up in MN?? I enjoy watching amazing plays by professional athletes as well (they don’t need to be the “Minnesota” Vikings). So I guess I’m asking, deep down, why would you really care if they left??? 
