Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Easier Minnesota in my opinion wouldn't be boring. The melting pot of a few generations ago is long gone. In case you liberals haven't noticed. Majority of today's immigrants don't feel obligated to "melt" in our pot............ Our country's feel good policies have allowed immigrants to get lazy about assimilating. That's why we've got sky high ESL costs, etc. etc. I long for people wanting to assimilate enough to relate to each other. Instead we get these pockets and ethnic groups. The more liberals push for equality the more they cause inequality by constantly making accomadations for diversity. Let's just all shut up about it and the melting might happen naturally. Stop giving immigrants a free pass, last I checked they supposedly wanted to be American.
signed
one of the moronic posters
proud right wing ultra conservative
I saw this post a little while back and I suppose that no one else wanted to take a crack at it. Well, I'm going to hit this point "Our country's feel good policies have allowed immigrants to get lazy about assimilating. That's why we've got sky high ESL costs, etc. etc." The poster assumes that speaking a language, per se, leads to assimilation. To that point, I think that speaking the same language can still lead to some pretty substantial differences: white vs. black, North vs. South, blue collar vs. white collar, etc. All of these groups speak English, but all have different customs and cultures. Have you noticed the differences between white and black churches? They are generally pretty different (in my experience, at least). Cultural differences extend beyond our ability to speak English.
The most offensive part of this post, and possibly the most hypocritical part, regards immigrants who are "lazy," presumably because they have not learned English yet. That's ridiculous. If you are a self-proclaimed "conservative," then sit down and enjoy this historical bit. In 1896, Minnesota's official election instructions were issued in nine languages: English, German, Norwegian, Swedish, Finnish, French, Czech, Italian, and Polish. (Immigration in Minnesota Fact Sheet (http://www.energyofanation.org/cf8369d9-dcd2-4156-9007-cfd63a61de21.html?NodeId= - broken link)) Minnesota embraced immigrants and we still should today. A conservative should appreciate that.
As another example, German immigrants that moved to the Midwest in the late 19th century and early 20th century were generally slower than other immigrant groups to assimilate into American society. This occurred because of the shear number of German immigrants in the Midwest and the fact that they had separate businesses, churches, schools, and the like. Under your neocon view, we would have been wise to not allow entry to these American wannabes. However, the second generation of German immigrants more easily assimilated into American culture, due in part to learning English in school, and the rest is history.
Under the guise of concern about assimilation, you claim that immigrants do not want to assimilate. It's like you expect all immigrants to come to the United States wearing a cowboy hat, eating a corn dog, waving an American flag, and speaking perfect English. It has never worked that way in the past and it never will. So what is the best way to teach English to second-generation immigrants? My response is ESL programs. But you are against ESL because it costs too much. So far as I can tell, you do not actually want immigrants to assimilate or else you would approve of programs geared toward integrating immigrants. For a conservative, you sure do not have an appreciation of the past.
Do you suppose your attitude might have driven people away from you? I'm feeling very defensive reading some of these posts because of the way they are written (some are very antagonistic or dismissive); and most older Minnesotans don't care for confrontations and don't want to be embarrassed or to have attention drawn to themselves.
An older Minnesotan (my age or older) would either leave ASAP or try to disappear if someone approached them with an attitude. The very last thing an older Minnesotan wants to do is cause a scene or be the center of attention.
I specifically stated in my post that Minnesotans are RESERVED
So yes, that would agree with what you just said. I feel alot of people here are closeminded as well - many of my friends say, "Oh you're so outgoing and wierd"
Well I dont think so, I just think lots of people here have a temperment about them - a very passive aggressive nature...
Have I driven people away with my attitude? Yes.
Have I attracted people with my attitude? Yes.
Have you done both of the above? Yes. You seem reserved, much like a typical minnesotan so it only makes sense that you will attract other likeminded homogenous individuals.
There's nothing wrong with that, but unfortunately for me I do have ambitions and I am *NOT* afraid to try new things that haven't been done before -- I continue to be completely flabbergasted by how close minded many of the people here are...
"No way I'm going to a spa that's for ****, monte!! How can you do that are you gay?!"
"Why would you want to make art? I got a job at Home Depot and I make 7 bucks an hour, how much do you make an hour doing that??"
The sentences are literally strung together in that fashion (like a blind epilleptic stumbling down the side of mount everest) Yes, we do have some of the best schools in the country, but I am still amazed at how many people simply don't read/spell well - and how intimidated people get when meeting new people (ie friends of friends or distant relatives)
Stereotypes aren't always applicable - but they exist for a very good reason, and the Minnesotan stereotype is boring and reserved. Do you fit the bill?
In conclusion: You can keep your -40 winters, boring smalltalk, passive aggressive tendencies, all whilst hiding in a corner (because god forbid a group of people should look at you!)
I'll keep my 74* year round temps, film community, entertainment capitol of the world, ridiculously high housing cost, smog ridden life - while sitting on a beach in december, enjoying life outside, *COMFORTABLY*
I specifically stated in my post that Minnesotans are RESERVED
Yes, we do have some of the best schools in the country, but I am still amazed at how many people simply don't read/spell well - and how intimidated people get when meeting new people (ie friends of friends or distant relatives)
In conclusion: You can keep your -40 winters, boring smalltalk, passive aggressive tendencies, all whilst hiding in a corner (because god forbid a group of people should look at you!)
I'll keep my 74* year round temps, film community, entertainment capitol of the world, ridiculously high housing cost, smog ridden life - while sitting on a beach in december, enjoying life outside, *COMFORTABLY*
Fair trade?
You make me chuckle. As if there is some screener at the sign-on point of City-data.com, ensuring that anyone who posts on the forum is going to be representative of our state. I've got news for you - anyone can post on city-data, even those with crappy grammar and punctuation. I have to admit, those people posting on this forum who can't spell well don't make me feel to alarmed about our general state of education in MN. Let's go on the California thread and ensure everyone is using proper English techniques.
As for the assertion that Minnesotans "hide in a corner" - I have to disagree. In the business and political worlds, the areas I have exposure to, that isn't the case at all. Our contingent in the political spotlight in recent years has been Paul Wellstone, possibly the most outspoken Senator of his era, Tim Pawlenty, a Governor whose groundbreaking policies are covered weekly in the Wall Street Journal and NYTimes, and an upcoming election where the front-runners are slick New Yorker Norm Coleman and Al Franken. Sound like a state of timid people who like to "go along to get along"??
Business-wise, Minnesota is an innovator and a leader. In addition to historic successes, we are the state introducing more envelope-pushing medical technology and advertising creativity than any other region. Companies like United Healthgroup, Medtronic, Target, and Best Buy are centers of innovation. And they are staffed with employees who largely come from the state, in addition to a healthy and welcome infusion of national and global talent. Now, how could a state full of meek simpletons build companies that dominate the consumer and health markets nationwide? Have solace in knowing that when you go are in SoCal and buy some food, purchase electronics, utilize your health coverage, or require a $20,000 implant after an accident, that the profits of your purchase are being shipped back here to good old MN.
You move to the beach, live the life and buy all the goods you need to keep up with the Hiltons, and we'll happilly sell them to you for a tidy profit while we meekly sit on our cold corners here in Minny. Fair trade?
And for the record, I lived in SoCal for a couple years and had a great time there. But now I prefer Minnesota. See -- you don't have to bash one place in order to like another.
I specifically stated in my post that Minnesotans are RESERVED
So yes, that would agree with what you just said. I feel alot of people here are closeminded as well - many of my friends say, "Oh you're so outgoing and wierd"
Well I dont think so, I just think lots of people here have a temperment about them - a very passive aggressive nature...
Have I driven people away with my attitude? Yes.
Have I attracted people with my attitude? Yes.
Have you done both of the above? Yes. You seem reserved, much like a typical minnesotan so it only makes sense that you will attract other likeminded homogenous individuals.
There's nothing wrong with that, but unfortunately for me I do have ambitions and I am *NOT* afraid to try new things that haven't been done before -- I continue to be completely flabbergasted by how close minded many of the people here are...
And where are you coming from, monti? I am an older person; still working however; and have never been afraid to try new things. I'm RESERVED but that is when it comes to other people's confrontational attitudes; and like MOST older people who were born and raised in MN, I don't want to draw attention to myself out in public. But just because that is how I am when it comes to confrontations; that doesn't mean that I'm an old stick-in-the-mud who is afraid of change or to try something new. And my circle of friends is a diverse group from around the world; some from Tibet, some from Iran, one from India, etc. And they are all ages too. One friend is in her upper 80's and is now planning a trip to Switzerland (she was in Sweden last year); she's hoping to see all of the countries of the world and she's doing it alphabetically! She stays at hostels and goes "on the cheap" as she says; and yes; she's a Minnesotan too!
Quote:
Originally Posted by monti
Stereotypes aren't always applicable - but they exist for a very good reason, and the Minnesotan stereotype is boring and reserved. Do you fit the bill?
In conclusion: You can keep your -40 winters, boring smalltalk, passive aggressive tendencies, all whilst hiding in a corner (because god forbid a group of people should look at you!)
I'll keep my 74* year round temps, film community, entertainment capitol of the world, ridiculously high housing cost, smog ridden life - while sitting on a beach in december, enjoying life outside, *COMFORTABLY*
Fair trade?
monti; I believe that you made a bunch of assumptions here about me (and probably most Minnesotans in general) because you accepted a stereotype that just isn't true. Because you accepted that stereotype, you've painted all Minnesotans with a broad swath of gray boringness.
I do wish you luck in whatever the future holds for you.
1) Carry a canoe on top of your car
2) Show up to lutefisk dinner at church
2) Show up to lutefisk dinner with a canoe on top of your car
I dream of this Minnesota because I am a purebred Norweigian and miss every bit of my family heritage. People really did look out for each other more when people attempted to actually have something in common. These days are a thing of the past. Now very few people seem to care about each other even more. Nobody smiles and many just look plain mad...unless they are eating lutefisk and/or canoeing. It's rich, cultural heritage and it's a part of history that is only alive for a handful of MN .
I think there are two Minnesotas - outstate and the Twin Cities. Within the TC you'll find diversity in social structure, housing, and employment. However, that being said, it still doesn't mean suburbanites mix socially with other cultures out of the work place.
Outstate MN is less diverse, especially in northern MN.
I came across this post and read it with great interest. I have never lived in Minnesota permanently, but I went to college in Northern MN as an undergrad (Concordia, Moorhead). In my experience I have always found people in the upper Midwest in general to be very grounded and genuine - much more so than many of my neighbors and acquaintances here on the west coast. I am certainly curious about Monti's perceptions that people in MN lack ambition. If that is the case, why are my friends from college (who grew up in Minnesota) more successful than I am? If you're more ambitious yourself, Monti, what are you doing lying on the beach? Don't mistake reserved for lack of ambition or a lack of friendliness.
My perception of the West Coast - after living here all of my adult life - is that there is a lot of false bravado and materialism. People all too often seem "fake", if you will. When I do find a genuine soul, guess what... They've often grown up in the Midwest. Personally, I'd love to be able to move to Duluth and enjoy those long cold winters! Goodbye traffic jams and ridiculous housing prices; hello simpler life and genuine people!
"There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all.
This is just as true of the man who puts “native” before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen. Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance.
But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else.
The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English- Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian- Americans, or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality than with the other citizens of the American Republic.
The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American. "
Addressing the Knights of Columbus in New York City
12 October 1915
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
.
the eyes do smile!
