How to NOT ruin Montana if you move here (Conrad: crime, tax rates)

[Klapton]

Originally Posted by geonerd

This isn't the 18th century. We're not in the Wild West anymore and your carrying around a Smith & Wesson in your jacket absolutely does not constitute a "well regulated militia."

First, the "wild west" wasn't nearly as wild as Hollywood would have us believe. Second, the definition of the militia is every male over 18 who isn't a conscientious objector. "Well regulated" means fully trained and equipped.

This I think is the crux of this whole issue - there's a yearning among some Montanans for a time when man was a law unto himself and to God. But that's not the world we live in anymore, no matter how bad you want it to be.

A man IS a law unto himself and to God. The fact that certain other men wish to make slaves of other men doesn't change that, any more than infringing on our right to keep and bear arms means that right doesn't exist.

I'd like to see us move forward. Move away from being afraid of everything.

Where do you get this assumption that I'm "afraid of everything?" I'm an Army veteran of 21 years - I don't scare easily.

[geonerd]

Originally Posted by GrandviewGloria

I don't think you're off-topic at all. You just told us precisely what the thread is about: How NOT to ruin Montana.

And don't worry about Gloria and Company: gaudy as we are, if we did move to Missoula, we'd be doing manual labor with the neighbors, right off the bat. And we would not build on a hill. First, we understand the thermal dynamics involved, and also understand the subtle sonic problems that such an exposed position would cause for such a residence. Depression caused by infrasonic wind noise has been a documented phenomenon for at least a century. We also know that houses on the hills are ruining the cherished look of Missoula. I was being silly, talking about my Chateau. If we built, everything would stay pasture and rural, except for a courtyard vegetable garden in the middle of the house compound...sheltered by the buildings and eight-foot rock walls. Otherwise, pasture would come right up to the house....no rolled-out grass, no 'landscaping'...

Nor would we bring in servants from foreign countries. We've heard how Californians ruined Seattle, by doing just that.

I'm sure Montanans don't like Californians and their monstrous chalets or anything fancy for that matter. But that's not the problem. What really urks them is so much more mundane than that.

It's what this thread is really about - it is people like me coming here and thinking:

"Why are there no restaurants open on Sundays?"
"Why are the roads in such poor condition?"
"Why do I have to ride my motorcycle 75 miles to find a decent stretch of twisty road?"
"And why does no one bother to wear a helmet? Is neurosurgery cheaper here than anywhere else?"
"Why can no one pronounce the words "root" or "creek" correctly?"
"Why is everyone driving monster trucks to work in the summer?"
"Why is there a four year old on TV carrying around a pink .22 rifle at a gunshow?"
"Why are there no bagels in this town?"
"Why does everyone leave their horses (along with their dogs) outside when its -30F?"

Seemingly trivial questions. But ask someone any one of these questions and you're likely to get an angry response and some advice about not letting the door hit ya on your way out (see page 28). Great place unless you don't agree with something. Then it's a knockdown, dragout, 32 page argument about how Montana was fine until the hippies and homos showed up.

[geonerd]

Originally Posted by Klapton

First, the "wild west" wasn't nearly as wild as Hollywood would have us believe. Second, the definition of the militia is every male over 18 who isn't a conscientious objector. "Well regulated" means fully trained and equipped.



A man IS a law unto himself and to God. The fact that certain other men wish to make slaves of other men doesn't change that, any more than infringing on our right to keep and bear arms means that right doesn't exist.



Where do you get this assumption that I'm "afraid of everything?" I'm an Army veteran of 21 years - I don't scare easily.

If it isn't fear that makes you want to carry a weapon everywhere you go then what is it? Isn't your stated purpose to fend off would-be attackers? That is fear of being attacked.

Some fear is good. If you go to Afghanistan, I hope you're going to be very well armed. If, however, you're going to the Loaf-n-Jug on a Sunday afternoon in Conrad, MT, the amount of fear a reasonable person would have in that situation does not justify carrying a firearm for protection.

We are all afraid because we're human. But that doesn't mean we have to submit to it.

[mica]

If it isn't fear that makes you want to carry a weapon everywhere you go then what is it? Isn't your stated purpose to fend off would-be attackers? That is fear of being attacked.

Not at all.

I have a smoke detector in my house but I am not in fear of my house burning down.

I wear a seat belt in my car but I am not afraid of crashing.

I wear a full face helmet, well I am a little concerned about crashing on my bike

You have a different perspective than most gun owners. We see it as being prepared in the unlikely event it is needed. Chances are a smoke detector will never save my life from dying in a fire but it is good to have one. Same with a firearm, it doesn't hurt to be safe and carry one when lawfully allowed because you never know when you might need one.

[geonerd]

Originally Posted by mica

Not at all.

I have a smoke detector in my house but I am not in fear of my house burning down.

I wear a seat belt in my car but I am not afraid of crashing.

I wear a full face helmet, well I am a little concerned about crashing on my bike

You have a different perspective than most gun owners. We see it as being prepared in the unlikely event it is needed. Chances are a smoke detector will never save my life from dying in a fire but it is good to have one. Same with a firearm, it doesn't hurt to be safe and carry one when lawfully allowed because you never know when you might need one.

I do see it differently. I think having a fire alarm in your house will protect you in case you have a fire, but I also know that a fire alarm isn't going to accidentally put a grapefruit sized hole in your face if you mishandle it.

Similarly, if you wear your helmet, you might not become a vegetable if you crash. But accidentally leaving your helmet out for your kids to play with isn't going to kill them.

Being afraid isn't some shameful thing. It's what keeps us alive. But there is unreasonable fear, and in my opinion carrying a loaded weapon to the store and to church and to work constitutes irrational fear.

[Klapton]

Originally Posted by geonerd

I do see it differently. I think having a fire alarm in your house will protect you in case you have a fire, but I also know that a fire alarm isn't going to accidentally put a grapefruit sized hole in your face if you mishandle it.

There are only four rules one must know and obey in order to NEVER have an accident with a firearm. In fact, there is no such thing as an "accident" with a firearm. There is only incompetence and negligence. If you don't know the four rules, you should look them up. It's the sort of thing everyone should know, but unfortunately many people don't. (Like CPR, first aid... lots of things irresponsible people don't know.)

Similarly, if you wear your helmet, you might not become a vegetable if you crash. But accidentally leaving your helmet out for your kids to play with isn't going to kill them.

Same as above: there are no "accidents," only negligence. The reason that kid with the pink .22 you mentioned in another response is perfectly safe, is because that kid knows the four rules mentioned earlier.

Being afraid isn't some shameful thing. It's what keeps us alive. But there is unreasonable fear, and in my opinion carrying a loaded weapon to the store and to church and to work constitutes irrational fear.

Well, I think it's unreasonable to fear auto accidents, so maybe I should forgo having insurance. And since I will probably never have a fire in my home or auto, I should not have fire extinguishers in my home and auto. I probably won't ever need the gas can, jumper cables, first aid kit, sleeping bag (during winter, anyway), candles, or MRE I always keep in my car either.

I'm not afraid at all, because I am PREPARED. (And yeah, I was a gun-toting Boy Scout before I was a gun-toting soldier.) If there is one thing I fear, it's all those OTHER IDIOTS out there in the world who don't have enough sense to prepare themselves in case bad things happen.

[mica]

It's not that hard to NOT put your finger on the trigger when you don't want to. You are ignoring the fact that there are millions,millions! of loaded guns everyday in America that do not accidentally go bang.

Seriously, more children drown in backyard pools than die by guns every year. I am talking about real children, not using the 'stats' that the anti gun crowd uses which include up to 19 years old, which of course include gang bangers and such.

The good thing about the 4 rules of firearm safety is you can screw up and not adhere to 3 of them and you will still not accidentally shoot something you do not intend to.

I sold one of my handguns today to another citizen of my state, no background check required. All legal and NOT part of the mythical 'gunshow loophole'. God Bless America!

[ElkHunter]

Let's get back on topic.

[Lindsole]

Originally Posted by GrandviewGloria

I don't think you're off-topic at all. You just told us precisely what the thread is about: How NOT to ruin Montana.

And don't worry about Gloria and Company: gaudy as we are, if we did move to Missoula, we'd be doing manual labor with the neighbors, right off the bat. And we would not build on a hill. First, we understand the thermal dynamics involved, and also understand the subtle sonic problems that such an exposed position would cause for such a residence. Depression caused by infrasonic wind noise has been a documented phenomenon for at least a century. We also know that houses on the hills are ruining the cherished look of Missoula. I was being silly, talking about my Chateau. If we built, everything would stay pasture and rural, except for a courtyard vegetable garden in the middle of the house compound...sheltered by the buildings and eight-foot rock walls. Otherwise, pasture would come right up to the house....no rolled-out grass, no 'landscaping'...

Nor would we bring in servants from foreign countries. We've heard how Californians ruined Seattle, by doing just that.

Anyway, I spent a week in Aspen, staying out of my Decorator's way, while he moved us into this Portland house. It was supposed to be a time of solitary meditation for me: coming to terms with leaving Mississippi. Instead, some film industry people we'd met on the Vegan circuit in Malibu recognised me, and I spent the week party-hopping, instead of mourning. After all that fun, there's no way I'm ever hiding out on some Montana ranch. If we ever have ten-plus to spend on a house, we're moving to Aspen.

So why do you think these rich goobers build these clueless multimillion-dollar conglomerations? Do you think the menfolk hope to have (secret) affairs with real cowboys? What do you think they tell themselves about what they're doing? We were just looking for someplace better than Mississippi. But what about the others?

Haha Who knows what is going through there heads. They are tell us out here that it is there "little piece of Montana" Makes me gag when they say that. I guess it is all about the ''romantic" factor.

[Reziac]

Originally Posted by Lindsole

Haha Who knows what is going through there heads. They are tell us out here that it is there "little piece of Montana" Makes me gag when they say that. I guess it is all about the ''romantic" factor.

That may be the key phrase right there: "Romantic factor".

It's not just the guy who has visions of owning a 20-acre "ranch" (trifle small if you ask me, but in CA and AZ they call half an acre a "ranchette") or of having that hunting lodge the size of St.Mary's. It's the people who move here and think it's okay to turn their dog loose because after all it's the wide open country. Or who come here and can't function without their Starbucks before work. Ever heard of a coffeepot??