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I thought liberals were poor, lazy, government-dependent socialists. How can "they" come in and offer triple the price of a house, driving up the market and out-pricing the normal population?
Satire of course, but based on the Politics & Controversies forum - it makes for a nice controdiction . Maybe it just means there are no middle-class liberals. Just the rich elitists and/or poor hippies/thugs?
Middle-class moderate, myself. Just the OP made me want to bring this thought-contradiction up.
Your philosophical diatribe is one of the reasons this thread was started.
Whether someone agrees with Tiberius or not, he spent a good part of his life in Montana. His comments reflect a nostalgia for Montana of the past, and he maintains a reverence for the values of Montanans.
In contrast, your post is nothing more than a cauldron of political vitriol.
If you've got something to say with relevance to Montana, say it. If not, take your cerebral feces to the political forum.
"Cerebral feces"?
That's not vitriolic or childish at all now is it?
I understand that the truth sometimes is painful. But that's no reason to be rude.
My original post has everything to do with Montana. Particularly as a response to Tiberius's post, which is more a political statement about the direction of the country than it is about Montana and how to "not ruin it." But that mentality is widespread here. Reverence is fine. But you're blowing sunshine up each other's skirts if you think Montana has had some long forgotten idyllic past.
Let's blame everyone else for our problems. Let's have tax cuts for everyone and then complain about the deficit. Let's increase the amount of guns in the world and then **** and moan about violent crime. Let's whine about how Montana is being "ruined" by outsiders while not actually doing the first thing about it. I live here too, and I am so sick of the lies.
Location: Approximately 50 miles from Missoula MT/38 yrs full time after 4 yrs part time
2,308 posts, read 4,121,626 times
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"You can't make a skunk smell sweet!"
(I've got to "vent")...............
Folks, if you want to experience a perfect example of why so many of us who live here in Montana have serious reservations regarding those who move here "carrying baggage" that reeks of Liberalism; change is good; 'guns are bad'; tree hugger; Obama follower; (his characterizations--not mine) etc, etc................then (in chonological order read the following posts).
The Montana problem w/ outsiders moving in..7/17/08...#87
Montana on pace to surpass 1 million residents by 2012...6/7/09...#7
How not to ruin Montana.............1/28/10.........#269
How not to ruin Montana.............1/19/10.............#273.
Summary: Moved here for the job at Malmstrom, not because he liked the Montana "way-of-life"......and the beliefs that so many Montanans hold dear, not because of the "quality" people who call this state home.
Made no serious,real attempt to "fit-in" to this "way-of-life", but rather tried to make "his newly acquired enviroment" fit "his way of life".
After 1/1/2 yrs here, is openly hostile to real Montanan's point of view; is close-minded to almost everything we (Montanan's) stand for and have worked hard to preserve.
I could go on and on.............but I think it's abundently clear that we see the result of "a square peg trying to fit in a round hole". The love of San Francisco and how "fantastic" and wacko it is to live there, are easy to understand, given the stated political leaning and philosophical views on life.
As stated as far back as 6/7/09.....he wants to be "lucky" and get out of Montana. Well OK....."MAN UP" and take "the bit in your teeth".....you'll be happier and we will be better off.
Oh, and don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on the way out!
(Sorry Mod, but (IMHO) this is no more confrontational than much contained in his recent posts). Sometimes the truth and reality have to (and should ) be aired.
That's not vitriolic or childish at all now is it?
I understand that the truth sometimes is painful. But that's no reason to be rude.
My original post has everything to do with Montana. Particularly as a response to Tiberius's post, which is more a political statement about the direction of the country than it is about Montana and how to "not ruin it." But that mentality is widespread here. Reverence is fine. But you're blowing sunshine up each other's skirts if you think Montana has had some long forgotten idyllic past.
Let's blame everyone else for our problems. Let's have tax cuts for everyone and then complain about the deficit. Let's increase the amount of guns in the world and then **** and moan about violent crime. Let's whine about how Montana is being "ruined" by outsiders while not actually doing the first thing about it. I live here too, and I am so sick of the lies.
Subarus, Volvos, Birkinstocks, and North Face are about greed and overconsumption? I thought they were about being thrifty and practical! That's what we had, back when we were in grad school, rolling pennies to pay for food.
You make me glad we picked Portland, instead of Missoula or Montpelier (and those were on our list...Portland won because we had income streams from here). It would be terrible if our possessions made the neighbors feel uneasy. I don't think my Cayenne, or DH's Gelaendewagen would be very welcome at all. And I won't even start listing the labels we wear, now that we've moved up from North Face. Plus, designer coffee is so unhealthy. We have to have a nearby juice bar (another reason Portland won). DH goes into an afternoon slump, if he can't have an Alfalfa Shot.
On the other hand, we hate Democrats and Republicans equally, are confirmed Agnostics, and know how to handle a post hole digger & string barbed wire. And while I may own six sets of china (all of them disturbingly fancy...to judge the looks on the new neighbors' faces), I was out doing heavy digging and pruning in the yards of elderly neighbors, within a week of moving in (wearing Carhartt insulated overalls, silk turtlenecks from Saks, Duck Boots, and a Chinchilla-lined Aviator Hat from Neiman's). And I think I'm adjusting well to a simple life in Oregon; leaving behind the satin, velvet, gold-leaf and marble of the Mississippi house...letting my decorator re-frame the Mississippi Impressionists in Maple, to match the new floors...learning to appreciate the way the Oatmeal Linen upholstery melds with the Travertine walls...learning to exist in a house whose outer walls are mostly GLASS. So, I think I could easily adjust to a Vermont farmhouse, if neighbors could forgive my husband's Mink-lined Crocodile Bomber Jacket from Bijan.
Anyway, I'm telling you these things so that you will be less horrified by the Volvo & Birkenstock crowd. This is your Bete Noire speaking: Things COULD be worse. Far, far, worse...
I read all these posts about bashing "outsiders" moving to Montana, and let me say I have first hand experience with people ruining my home state of VT. Here is how to NOT ruin things if you move from NY, NJ, MA, IL, CA to a rural state.
1) Refuse to pay $350K for that new 3 Br rancher. Tell the seller that it is only worth $120K and that is all you will pay. If you are willing (and can) pay overinflated prices you have just ruined the market for someone who can only afford a reasonable mortgage. Build simple, cheap and green. The locals will respect you for it (no McMansions).
2) Leave your "liberal" mentality in CA! This does not mean you have to like Bush or Rush. People in the rural areas generally don't want extreme left or right thinking/politics. They are mostly center of the road pro-constitution.
3) Don't get involved in politics. Let the state be run the way it has been. If you like right wing bible thumping move to Mississippi or Tennesse. If you like diversity (gang-bangers and hip hop) move to LA. If you like constitutional freedom move to ID, MT, VT. There are states that match your like and dislikes. It is a big country, but don't move to an area to change things.
4) Rural people own and carry handguns for self defense. If you don't like it stay in NY City where it is safe under Mayor Bloomberg. We don't want a police heavy state in Montana or Vermont!
5) Subarus, Volvos, Birkinstocks, North Face, Latte do not belong in rural areas. It is like wiping the greed and excesses in the faces of the locals. This does not mean you need to shop at Walmart for your fashions and wear a dirty cammo baseball hat. If you move here buy a utilitarian vehicle (Jeep, Small Pick-up Etc), get some new Carharts, a woodstove and live simply. Country does not mean being a redneck. Just dress down and be humble, not loud and pretentious. Save your cash for future emergencies. Greed is not welcome in the simple country lifestyle!
6) Don't blast hip-hop or wear your pants around your ankles. NO ONE here wants to hear it, believe me!
We have a philosophy in my homestate of Wisconsin. If you're nice to us, we're nice to you. That's it.
I've been creeped by Montana Grizz. Yikes. Kinda stalker-ish.
Just for the record, I'm absolutely not out to change anything in Montana. I haven't bought a $600,000 ranch. I don't have Obama stickers plastered all over my car. I pay my taxes. I shovel my sidewalks after it snows. And I happily go to work everyday.
But there's a difference between "ruining" Montana and not letting people get away with the kind of cynical rhetoric that Tiberius posted originally. I don't buy into the notion that Montana, or anywhere else for that matter, was some kind of sacred place in the past that was free from the horrors of civilization.
That idyllic vision of Montana is the "black and white" thinking I'm talking about. It doesn't exist here or anywhere else. It never has. The world has always been a harsh, cruel place. It's reality you're complaining about. I'm just saying that ignoring it, hoping it will go away won't make things better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GLS
Unhappy? Move.
I am not unhappy. But that doesn't mean I have to like it when people espouse views that are factually empty. That annoys me.
(Sorry Mod, but (IMHO) this is no more confrontational than much contained in his recent posts). Sometimes the truth and reality have to (and should ) be aired.
I think you mean that reality should be "re-aired."
I wouldn't be here if I was afraid to express myself publicly, which is what I did in those posts you creeped. It was awfully nice of you to spend all that time searching and reading up on little old me though.
Sorry Montana Griz, won't let me rep you, but you certainly deserve it.
The tone of this thread lately is a perfect example of why outsiders are met with suspision and reserve.
No, Montana is not some Paradise lost, yet, but the influx of those who disparage our values and traditions and have no respect for the people who live here, and denegrate the things that the residents love about this place are eroding our once lovely state.
Those who come here and purposely work to destroy what they don't like to make it more like Seattle or Portland or San Fransico orwhatever "Civilized" urban perdition they come from are not adding to the well being of this state or whatever state they move to.
Montanan's love this state, we have roots here, our forefathers and mothers are buried here and we have raised our families here. It isn't easy, we made do with small wages, long hours and hard work.
Maybe it was harder because we couldn't get an alfalfa smoothie in the afternoon, but good spring water and black coffee get us through the day.
(Oh yeah, and large quantities of Mountain Dew).
To see some of the posters try to denegrate us for not embracing a philosophy of failed political disasters that most see as destroying the freedom to become everything you want to be, to run down hard work because you should be happy to pay for the shiftless, is petty and exemplifies the closed mind set of the left.
Most Montanan's don't care what car you drive, or the label on your clothes, it seems to be of far more importance to those showing how much money they make to try and make others feel inferior.
Here, the superficial, the shallow, the psudo-enlightend are shunned as they have no substance. The arguments they offer ring hollow as history has seen their ideals of a government run life fail over and over across the globe.
It is easy to say, " There should be a program to take care of that" runs contrary to the Montana lifestyle of taking care of our own. Charity is a wonderful thing when it is an individual giving of themselves to help their neighbors, but when the goverment confiscates your wage to give it to someone who refuses to work, or is a member of the proper minority it isn't charity, it is despotism, and Montana is not the place to preach the teaching of Marx and Mao.
We work for what we have. We put in long hours in a harsh climate to earn our living and provide for our families.
I for one don't care what the brand name of the clothes I am wearing is as long as it covers what needs covering and provides some warmth.
I don't care if my car wasn't made in Germany as long as it gets me to work and home.
I don't drink spritzers, or mocalattachinolates with sprinkles. I go to a restaraunt that serves good portions of good food at a good price. I don't have a need to pay large tabs for a meal that leaves me hungry just so I can say I eat at Chez Snob.
Most of us are what the elites would call the great unwashed because most of us don't read books like "The Road". I have, and found it to be trite and a celebration of how lazy and worthless someone can be when searching for gratification through drugs and avoidance of work and calls it a search for "enlightenment".
Why waste time on "philosophers" that celebrate the basest of human drives, laziness, sloth, and huberous.
Bozeman used to be a great place. Now it is indistinguishable from any other McMansion infested ski tramp town such as Aspen or Vail. A gathering place for the rich and shameless to indulge in excess to fill an empty life.
There aren't guards at the boarder holding people in, like the workers paradises of Soviet Russia, Cuba or North Korea.
If you don't like it here, you are free to leave and go back to the overtaxed, crowded, gang ridden hole you came from. There maybe, someone will be impressed you wear clothes that cost 10 times what they are worth just because they have the proper label.
We Montanan's aren't that shallow, so you probably will never fit in here.
So please feel free to go somewhere you will fit in with the other empty people.
My rant is over.
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. Maybe it just means there are no middle-class liberals. Just the rich elitists and/or poor hippies/thugs?
"You can't make a skunk smell sweet!"
Move.
