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No, it's not downtown. If you had read my post carefully, I said stores would do well on PERIPHERY of downtown b/c the Home Depot, etc. do well there. You said the Springfield ave. marketplace wouldn't do well b/c stores were closing downtown, but I pointed out the Springfield ave. marketplace ISN'T downtown.
and 'NO', it wasn't theft (Old Navy), (whether you saw it w/ your own eyes or not), national retailers have been closing under-performing stores
Sure so lets have a fiscal plan that doesn't involve needing a huge subsidy.... which means the people have to get educated and if foreigners that can barely speak english can make it into college why can't the kids BORN and raised here do the same? LAZINESS and NO GUIDANCE that's why. When your housing is free or subsidized and food is subsidized you have NO incentives to improve. Foreigners come here because they are almost starving with no opportunities in their homelands. They don't stand around with baggy pants and listening to stupid hip hop... they find out how to compete and work hard and in the end take US jobs away. THAT has to change first... get rid of the handouts and section 8 housing. You can't afford to live here then good get the hell out and move to kentucky where rent is 400 a month and work at McDonalds and educate yourself through community college so you can compete then come back. That is how foreigners are doing it and slowly taking over.
I used to wear baggy pants (back in the day, but no underwear showing like now), still listen to some stupid hip hop music. I also have a Master's Degree, run an afterschool program, coach middle school sports and am respected in my semi-affluent school district. So what does that make me?
Don't generalize. It doesn't make you look very smart in the end.
Newark's a 26 sq mi city shy of 300k, Philadelphia is a city of approx. 1.5 million (you know, only the 6th largest city in the United States) and approx. 130 sq mi.
Um...w/ those numbers Philly had BETTER have more million dollar condos, among other things.
If you're going to compare something at least do it logically. Newark is in the right range for a city of its size. Forest Hills has homes near $700 (and saw one in the 800k's), so what does it all mean?
Newark's a 26 sq mi city shy of 300k, Philadelphia is a city of approx. 1.5 million (you know, only the 6th largest city in the United States) and approx. 130 sq mi.
Um...w/ those numbers Philly had BETTER have more million dollar condos, among other things.
If you're going to compare something at least do it logically. Newark is in the right range for a city of its size. Forest Hills has homes near $700 (and saw one in the 800k's), so what does it all mean?
I looked into this and didn't see any evidence of houses selling in Forest Hill for 800k. These places are going for 600k at the most, which supports my point that rich people generally aren't willing to live in Newark (which shouldn't surprise anyone who reads this forum). Why would someone who can afford Montclair, South Orange, Manhattan or Brooklyn live in Newark voluntarily ?
That to me is a pretty good indicator of the vitality of a city -- are rich people willing to live there ? Are white people willing to live there ?
As for Philly being a larger city -- yes, it's large by population because there is enough industry there to support a large population (e.g. the jobs didn't all leave the city) and large by area because the suburban neighborhoods on the edges of the city didn't break away. Can you imagine what would happen if Newark tried to merge with Montclair and South Orange ?
I looked into this and didn't see any evidence of houses selling in Forest Hill for 800k. These places are going for 600k at the most, which supports my point that rich people generally aren't willing to live in Newark (which shouldn't surprise anyone who reads this forum). Why would someone who can afford Montclair, South Orange, Manhattan or Brooklyn live in Newark voluntarily ?
That to me is a pretty good indicator of the vitality of a city -- are rich people willing to live there ? Are white people willing to live there ?
As for Philly being a larger city -- yes, it's large by population because there is enough industry there to support a large population (e.g. the jobs didn't all leave the city) and large by area because the suburban neighborhoods on the edges of the city didn't break away. Can you imagine what would happen if Newark tried to merge with Montclair and South Orange ?
Philadelphia, like Newark, is one of the top ten poorest cities in the US.
Nearly a quarter of Philadelphia's population lives in poverty (which would probably be equal to that of Newark's entire population.)
That's a much better analysis of a city's vitality (not simply how much homes are going for). Especially considering...who's buying what? I also ponder this: if Philly has a sizable wealthy-class, it also must have an extremely high poverty-stricken class to offset it if it can still manage to be such a poor city.
As far as homes going for more than 600k, check the link below. Some of those homes are even in foreclosure which is why I don't believe in going solely on home worth (which, FWIW, is a factor).
excerpt: On the poverty front in Philadelphia, the only good news was that the percentage of poor people in the city didn’t go up. But beyond the human dimension of the problem, having more than 24 percent of the population living below the poverty line is a drag on the city’s future and puts it at a competitive disadvantage in relation to many other cities.
Philadelphia, like Newark, is one of the top ten poorest cities in the US.
Nearly a quarter of Philadelphia's population lives in poverty (which would probably be equal to that of Newark's entire population.)
That's a much better analysis of a city's vitality
Not only is it not any kind of "analysis", it also isn't a very good measure of vitality. By that measure, New York is comparable to Elizabeth or East Orange (both about 18% in poverty according to city-data stats)
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(not simply how much homes are going for).
How much homes are going for is a pretty good indicator of how desirable the city is.
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As far as homes going for more than 600k, check the link below.
I'm interested in closed sales, not listings. The most expensive listing is for 650, but it's not going to sell for that.
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Yes, I can indeed imagine South Orange merging w/ Newark (after all, most of Newark's surrounding suburbs were once a part of Newark)
I think most South Orange residents would have a very different opinion.
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Another difference we have is that I do not see white residents as immediately synonymous w/ wealth vs. middle-class income (white/black or otherwise)
It's necessary, but not sufficient. Once the dominant group won't live there, the place becomes, by definition, a ghetto. However, the fact that the dominant group live there doesn't make it desirable.
Newark is in very bad shape for a very long time: Newark Budget Cuts (http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/politics/newark-budget-cuts-20100722 - broken link)
The Newark/Maplewood border runs along Irvington Ave. and one would only see a Walgreen's/police station and shopping center and not really know it's Newark.
There is crime spillover, but not to a significant degree as most of these towns have extremely low crime rates
One would also see the Ivy Hill towers, which are clearly an urban housing structure and are much, much taller than anything else in South Orange, residential or otherwise.
As far as the crime spillover, it depends on what you consider a "significant degree." The amount of crime in South Orange or Maplewood might seem statistically insignificant to the amount of crime in Newark proper, but they are still quite high compared to many other "suburbs." South Orange also borders Orange, and as mentioned, Maplewood borders Irvington. There are a lot of property crimes and auto thefts/damages in South Orange and Maplewood, and they seem to me to be increasing. The index in 2008 for South Orange does not indicate that, but this year has been pretty bad, check out the crime reports on South Orange Patch.
One would also see the Ivy Hill towers, which are clearly an urban housing structure and are much, much taller than anything else in South Orange, residential or otherwise.
As far as the crime spillover, it depends on what you consider a "significant degree." The amount of crime in South Orange or Maplewood might seem statistically insignificant to the amount of crime in Newark proper, but they are still quite high compared to many other "suburbs." South Orange also borders Orange, and as mentioned, Maplewood borders Irvington. There are a lot of property crimes and auto thefts/damages in South Orange and Maplewood, and they seem to me to be increasing. The index in 2008 for South Orange does not indicate that, but this year has been pretty bad, check out the crime reports on South Orange Patch.
Ivy Hill towers are indeed taller than anything in South Orange. And...?
No, South Orange and Maplewood are not high crime suburbs. You say they are but then say that numbers for 2008 don't reflect that. It can't be both. If the numbers are only bad for this year that only serves to say that it didn't increase until just now...and Newark's had high crime for decades.
Last edited by 66nexus; 07-23-2010 at 03:25 PM..
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