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yes, but the reform law needs to make sense. which probably means it needs to be written by an outsider not affiliated with any politics and probably with the involvement of real law enforcement.
well, i think for one, corporate personhood needs to be addressed. I simply don't think it's right that a powerful entity (whether that be UAW or GE) be able to spend large amounts of money either arguing for or against a candidate, and not be able to know who the backers of that message are.
Another helpful way to limit the influence of the PACS, etc. would be to put a legal limit on the length of all campaigns. Campaigning now is for the better part of two years, so loads of money is needed. If it was legally mandated that all forms of campaigning could only be for a pre-determined short period (say 2 months), they wouldn't need so much money and the special interests, while they would still be there, wouldn't exert quite as much influence.
Admittedly, I don't know that much about the movement but I got to thinking about the backlash against Wall Street....
It occurred to me that most people I know that work and have profited from their work in the financial services industry/Wall Street do not come from money. Most of the people that I know--and I realize this is purely anecdotal---grew up solidly middle class, performed academically and attended top schools. They then headed to Wall Street in the 90s for their shot at the American dream. Many have made insane amounts of money--no doubt. However--I can honestly say the work they do is intense, and not for the faint hearted. The culture is about as tough as white collar work can get....and it's ubber competitive. It's not for me, for sure but for my generation (graduated 90s and are now hitting 40s) Wall Street offered the more ambitious among us the opportunity to hit it rich. The opportunity, but certainly, not the guarantee. No other industry that I came across offered that kind of climb up and while I did not take it, I don't begrudge those who did.
Do Wall Street jobs deserve such high pay? I don't know--but then again, do athletes or movie stars deserve the pay they make? Aren't we all in agreement that having a democratic government and a free market model is the American way? When we finish tearing down the salaries of Wall Streeters, will we then move to tear down movie stars and athletes--mandating no one make over a certain amount? And when we are done doing that, will any average joe have any method to hit it wildly rich? Let's face it--it's not as though entrepreneurs are hitting the highs--most small companies are driven out of business by the big ones. It is becoming nearly IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to skip economic classes. Take Wall Street away and we may it become even MORE difficult for anyone from the middle class to skip above via a salaried job. Meanwhile--the fat cats at the very tippy top---The ones that live off the interest in their fortunes and are able to avoid taxes through elaborate shelters---they will always make sure their offspring are cared for and the economic stratas will become even more affixed with even less ladders up....
Which led me right back to Wall Street......
I don't believe we are all po'd about the salaries as much as we are the rules of the game and the way they are now stacked. I am of the belief that the fault of this does not lie with Wall Street but rather with our legislators. The roots to our economic collapse go all the way back to the push towards globalization and the deregulation of many of our industries. I am thinking they ought to go take their protest to Washington! If the free market environment rewards the pay they make, fine. However--perhaps if we had better, smarter regulation---the profits and the motivations would not be so skewed and the work would be rewarded in a more equitable way. The issue is not the hard working people who have figured out a way to profit; the culprit is the system and the laws that promote this system in the first place.
Anyway---this is by no means my area of expertise, so I welcome feedback. This was juts a long brain fart I came up with while driving today.....
:-)
Last edited by CanonGrace; 10-05-2011 at 02:28 PM..
the greatest generation saddled us with a bunch of unpaid for entitlement spending that they've reaped the benefits from their entire lives. the constitution gave us the right to protest, not WWII. they helped defend that right. thanks for the non-history lesson though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by camaro69
Sorry, but the baby boomers are the ones that saddled us with a bunch of unpaid for entitlement spending. The greatest generation didn't spend if they didn't have the money.
You're both forgetting the real culprits -- the generation in between! The 'Silent Generation' are the ones who really blew it. (Those born late 1928+/- to 1945 -- too young to have fought in WW2 but too old to be baby boomers.)
They are the ones who controlled Congress from 1980 until 2010 -- the period of unbridled spending. They are the ones who squandered away their own social security trust funds saddling their children and grandchildren with their bills.
And if we didn't have to pay their bills, the federal budget would be balanced! What's the deficit this year -- around $1.3 trillion? And how much are we paying for social security and medicare? Hmm... about $1.3 trillion.
And they wonder why their kids don't have time to visit. The 'kids' (baby boomers and gen X'ers) are working two underpaid jobs just to try making ends meet!
You people protesting at Occupy Wall Street can be naive and not realize who's actually pulling the strings of your movement, you can deny this is a Communist pushed movement, but it is, the good thing though is this, it will fizzle out because the majority of people aren't on your side, they're too busy working to make their presence know, but they will make it known on election day.
because the majority of people aren't on your side, they're too busy working to make their presence know, but they will make it known on election day.
You just tapped into one of the main things that ticks me off about this.... the fact that people I know have to step over these people to get to....WORK, which is the very thing this country needs right now. Workers producing not drama rousers protesting......
....and when I became such a conservative fuddy duddy is still a mystery to me.
Admittedly, I don't know that much about the movement but I got to thinking about the backlash against Wall Street....
It occurred to me that most people I know that work and have profited from their work in the financial services industry/Wall Street do not come from money. Most of the people that I know--and I realize this is purely anecdotal---grew up solidly middle class, performed academically and attended top schools. They then headed to Wall Street in the 90s for their shot at the American dream. Many have made insane amounts of money--no doubt. However--I can honestly say the work they do is intense, and not for the faint hearted. The culture is about as tough as white collar work can get....and it's ubber competitive. It's not for me, for sure but for my generation (graduated 90s and are now hitting 40s) Wall Street offered the more ambitious among us the opportunity to hit it rich. The opportunity, but certainly, not the guarantee. No other industry that I came across offered that kind of climb up and while I did not take it, I don't begrudge those who did.
Do Wall Street jobs deserve such high pay? I don't know--but then again, do athletes or movie stars deserve the pay they make? Aren't we all in agreement that having a democratic government and a free market model is the American way? When we finish tearing down the salaries of Wall Streeters, will we then move to tear down movie stars and athletes--mandating no one make over a certain amount? And when we are done doing that, will any average joe have any method to hit it wildly rich? Let's face it--it's not as though entrepreneurs are hitting the highs--most small companies are driven out of business by the big ones. It is becoming nearly IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to skip economic classes. Take Wall Street away and we may it become even MORE difficult for anyone from the middle class to skip above via a salaried job. Meanwhile--the fat cats at the very tippy top---The ones that live off the interest in their fortunes and are able to avoid taxes through elaborate shelters---they will always make sure their offspring are cared for and the economic stratas will become even more affixed with even less ladders up....
Which led me right back to Wall Street......
I don't believe we are all po'd about the salaries as much as we are the rules of the game and the way they are now stacked. I am of the belief that the fault of this does not lie with Wall Street but rather with our legislators. The roots to our economic collapse go all the way back to the push towards globalization and the deregulation of many of our industries. I am thinking they ought to go take their protest to Washington! If the free market environment rewards the pay they make, fine. However--perhaps if we had better, smarter regulation---the profits and the motivations would not be so skewed and the work would be rewarded in a more equitable way. The issue is not the hard working people who have figured out a way to profit; the culprit is the system and the laws that promote this system in the first place.
Anyway---this is by no means my area of expertise, so I welcome feedback. This was juts a long brain fart I came up with while driving today.....
:-)
I think you've made some excellent points overall.
This playing of the "the rich aren't paying enough" card is meant to do one thing, divide, and it reaks of desperation by those using it. I'm nowhere near rich, if anything I'm middle class or lower depending on your definition, but I refuse to be envious and angry at those who have more than me. I have no doubt that I could be wealthy if I had the drive and incentive to do so, that's what America is all about. I know too many people in life who make excuses and want to blame because they're not successful, yet they never look inside themselves. As I mentioned in another post, I had to pay for my own College, I worked 1 full-time and 1 part-time and went to school part-time, there's nothing that says you have a right to finish College in 4 years, so what if it takes longer? as for student loans? I had no desire to start off my career in debt, so I took the slow route, same with buying a home, we could've very easily bought over my means, but we knew what we were comfortable with that and stuck with it, and I can say at least I have a decent amount of equity in my home unlike others who bought over their means.
First, Lets all congratulate the Mass Walkouts stage today for OCCUPY Wall Street NYC led by students from the campuses of Columbia University, Fordham University, New York University, Baruch College, Hunter College, St. John's University ( Queens & Staten Island campus), Queens College, Yeshiva University. All 19 colleges & universities around NYC were represented today. We expect the numbers to grow massively by next week.
There is nothing to congratulate, Lizzy. It will accomplish nothing except for "misery loves company".
If you want to change something in your life, Lizzy, it is up to you to make it happen as an individual person. Huddling with other incompetents for warmth will not change your life.
Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for yourself.
There is nothing to congratulate, Lizzy. It will accomplish nothing except for "misery loves company".
If you want to change something in your life, Lizzy, it is up to you to make it happen as an individual person. Huddling with other incompetents for warmth will not change your life.
Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for yourself.
That's a big part of why we're where we are today.
Called..."greed".
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Silent Generation Culprits
