Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
On the broader topic of racism in NJ, I think it definitely does exist, but is not overt. People associate racism with overt symbols and actions; lynching, KKK rallies, confederate flags, the n* word, skinheads, etc. These things really don't exist in NJ.
I agree with you on all points except for the statement above.
In fact, New Jersey had a significant KKK presence in the era of the 1920-1940s, and KKK rallies were held on more than one occasion. A particularly large rally took place in Franklin Township, more or less on the site of the current municipal building, albeit ~70 years ago. Not that many years ago, NJ was actually one of the KKK's strongest northern states in terms of membership.
Not far away, in the Zarephath section of Franklin Township, is the compound of The Pillar of Fire Church. This church was led for a few decades by Bishop Alma White, who was an avowed racist and an active supporter of The KKK. She actually preached and broadcast statements on the church radio station, advocating that people join the KKK in order...to preserve the white race...or some nonsense to that effect.
Ironically, that church survives today largely because of outreach to the Hispanic community, which has swelled its ranks. Hispanics are one of the groups whom their Bishop hated to her core...thus illustrating how reality can be stranger than fiction.
The Nazi Bund was a significant presence in Union (Union County), and The Bund held paramilitary summer camps in order to indoctrinate young German-Americans. These camps were located in Sussex County (the municipality slips my mind), and also in...Franklin Township's Griggstown section.
We still have the occasional showing of the Nazi flag in various places in our state, including at a Trenton rally w/in the past couple of years. And, of course, we have those two delightful parents in Hunterdon County who named their children after Hitler, Himmler, and...something else (?) Nazi-related.
I believe that NJ is no more plagued with racism than are most states at this point in our history, and perhaps we have a bit less racism as a result of the high percentage of college graduates and successful people in our state. However, to assume that things were always like this is...naive...and historically inaccurate.
There are racists here, just as there are in other states, but most of us don't see evidence of it in our everyday lives--unless we are the unwitting victims of that type of hatred.
I think the concept of black people being more racist is rather interesting. What about them makes them more racist? There is a certain level of defensiveness that I have found among some black people that I suppose could be construed as racism. It is really more of an ingrained distrust then anything else, most likely because these same people have experienced subtle and not so subtle racism in their lives. A black friend of mine explained it through a simple scenario. When he is out with mainly white friends, people treat him differently then when he is out mainly with his black friends. From the looks he gets from police officers to people moving aside on the sidewalk, etc. It is subtle, but it is there. There is a certain level of fear or distrust among people when they see a group of black men versus a group of mainly white men walking down the street.
I think a lot of white people also think of blacks being racist because of the prevalance of things that are primarily black or designed to promote and defend black people. I can't tell you how many times people mention BET and then follow it up with, "but WET would be considered racist", apply the same to the NAACP, United Negro College Fund, etc. Of course what most people miss is that these organizations and things were created precisely because blacks were largely locked out of other avenues that were open to whites. I think many white people internally feel that there is an existing double standard where blacks are allowed to be proud of their race and use it to their advantage when possible, but white people are not afforded the same thing. At least that's the impression I get from many white people, most of whom are more then happy to have black neighbors and friends. That's the subtle thing we are talking about.
On the broader topic of racism in NJ, I think it definitely does exist, but is not overt. People associate racism with overt symbols and actions; lynching, KKK rallies, confederate flags, the n* word, skinheads, etc. These things really don't exist in NJ. Certainly, there are some elements, these things do exist everywhere, but you don't see it here. That lulls people into a sense that there is no racism. However, we have a much more subtle kind and it is a form of subconscious racism that is very ingrained and even semi-promoted by media. The same things that made blockbusting work years ago is very much alive and well.
Here's a little exercise...
Clear your mind. Picture a steet corner in a typical NJ city like Newark, Camden, Trenton, etc. Now imagine that there is a group of young men standing on that street corner. Picture them wearing typical "urban" clothes. Imagine a car pulls up and one of the young men goes over and talks to the person in the car for less than a minute and then the car drives off. What color are the young men in your mind? What do you think they were doing? I'm willing to bet that 99% of the people doing this honestly pictured the people in the image like this:
Spoiler
...and immediately imagined that they were conducting a drug deal.
Now do the same thing again. Clear your mind. Picture a row of boarded up houses in a typical run down NJ city. Picture a young mother walking down the street with a 5 year old. What color are they? Do you think the young mother and child are on public assistance? Chances are this is what 99% of people will picture:
Spoiler
Does that make you a racist? Probably not, but most people certainly harbor negative stereotypes about blacks in NJ. The evening news is bombarded with stories from the cities involving gang wars, drug dealers and homicides. How many of us living in our safe suburbs even notice or care? Not many. We see it as typical behavior. We are conditioned to associate crime, poverty, urban decay and drugs with blacks. When these types of crimes happen in our safe suburbs we are actually shocked by it. When we hear of the police arresting a drug dealer and they splash his face on the news we expect it to be black and are actually momentarily shocked if it's a white person. When they are interviewing people who are being effected by cuts to public assistance we are shocked if it's a white person.
No one is racist towards their neighbors who just happen to be black. You know, these people:
However, that doesn't change the fact that when most people close their eyes and think of urban decay and crime, the picture they will have in their mind has black people in it. It also doesn't change the fact that when most people close their eyes and picture a black person, the image isn't one of President Obama or the family above, it is of a thugged out drug dealer. This is the type of racism that exists in NJ and the exact type of racism that the family above has to deal with, particularly the father; because let's face it, most people are rather shocked when a black man is even still a part of his family, right?
I think there is more prejudice there than racism.
Everyone is racist to some degree, it is a matter of how you show it (or not).
What if that "degree" is zero?
In any case, I remember an article that said that racism might be related to early humans having to know whether another person was "friend or foe" based on things like skin color and facial features. Obviously, the larger factor in modern-day racism is based on beliefs imposed on us by society (like the images NJGOAT showed us), but I'm just throwing it out there.
And on a side note, I think that woman in the picture with her kid looked more Hispanic than Black.
I think so. It seems to be in-born to be suspicious of people who aren't like us. We separate ourselves into groups all the time.
Absolutely!
It is important to distinguish between actual racism and the natural tendency of most people to want to associate most closely with people like themselves.
Just as in the tree tops, where the robins hang out with the robins, and the finches hang out with the finches, various races and religions tend to feel more comfortable with (and to trust) members of their own race/religion/ethnicity/nationality/sexuality. This is very different from actual racism.
However, that doesn't change the fact that when most people close their eyes and think of urban decay and crime, the picture they will have in their mind has black people in it.
Because the reality has black people in it. That isn't racism, any more than if you think of poor people in the Appalacians you think of white people.
But really, in one workplace you heard much more "white motherf'er" this, "cracker-ass" that, making Chinese eyes and accents. Much more than anything I saw in the other direction.
I brought up this point b4 too so how common is that? I am just wondering cuz I haven't been round that many blacks yet.
It's common enough for me to say that I have seen more racism from blacks than any other race. As I said, that is what I have seen myself, not saying it is universally true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OleSchoolFool
But you don't see black people lynching white people so how can it be worse?
How many times have you seen a white person lynch a black person?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OleSchoolFool
I don't have time to google anything rite now, but just off the top of my head-1998 dragging death in Texas for which a white guy was executed just last yr. That's not that long ago. I am sure you can find more recent ones.
So what? Are you saying that black people never murder white people? Cause that's surely what it looks like you are trying to say. The fact is that there are MANY instances of black on white crime in which the victims were targeted because of race, the only difference is that there is less of a chance of it being called a hate crime when it's in that direction.
Good post, Goat. I believe the inclination to be racist exists in all of us, just like we want to take things that don't belong to us. We are conditioned to know that the latter is considered wrong and most of us don't steal because of societal/legal rules. I think that in order to eradicate or lessen our racism, we have to first admit we have it.
The example I like to use is this one. I do not consider myself generally racist. I love my black BIL of thirty years, his sons and their families, my biracial niece. I really do have black friends, one of whom I am very close with, cliches notwithstanding. I have long worked in a multicultural setting.
But, some years ago, I joined my company bowling league. And the first night at the alley, in Jersey City, I was shocked to see how many black people were bowling and I was disturbed that I was shocked. I have no idea to this day why I thought black people didn't bowl. It's not cool enough or something? And this story evokes gales of laughter when I tell it to black people.
As open-minded as I consider myself, I apparently still harbor racial presumptions.
Aint nothing wrong with racial presumptions. I'd be amazed too if I saw, say black people playing hockey.
It might happen though, as soon as they make a heated hockey ring
It's common enough for me to say that I have seen more racism from blacks than any other race. As I said, that is what I have seen myself, not saying it is universally true.
How many times have you seen a white person lynch a black person?
So what? Are you saying that black people never murder white people? Cause that's surely what it looks like you are trying to say. The fact is that there are MANY instances of black on white crime in which the victims were targeted because of race, the only difference is that there is less of a chance of it being called a hate crime when it's in that direction.
No, obviously that's not what I am saying. It would be retarded. Of course there is hate crimes against whites by blacks, but I am saying it looks like white people harm black people way more than blacks harm whites when it comes to racial hate, be it physical violence or threats and intimidation. I haven't seen a lynching, and you do know that's a stupid question, but I heard enough stories even locally in my previous state of residence.
Matta fact, this is some stupid sh1t, why am I, being white, arguing with you about YOUR people being hurt and you trying to deny it, should be the other way around. You're not uncle tom, are you
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
