What's wrong with private education? (Newark, Camden: top schools, colleges, income)
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If you dig deep further, good public schools get funded by taxes in one way or another. In NJ, it is disproportionately funded by some of property taxes. Why do I say disproportionately? If you rent instead of purchasing a property, you may not gain equity but you don't pay the property tax either therefore contributing less to the schools but still get the full benefit of good public school system. Aside from prop tax, other taxes are relatively cheap compared to say NYC. I think business income tax is high in NJ but other than that...it is pretty cheap. Cheap gas, cheap sales tax, etc.
You pay rent. Your LL pays the property tax. To think renters don't pay property tax is a bit off. That's like saying if your utilities are included in the rent you don't pay utilities. You do, just not directly.
that's correct, public schools aren't free, it's pay by tax dollars, for example, my town pays $10k per student per year, through taxes.
Unless you are super wealthy, why would anyone pay $50k per kid when you can get free public education?
Because free public education is mediocre, and produces students that are ill-equipped to compete with those generated from far inferior societies.
And because a school system that is designed and administered by the government tends to indoctrinate students with a collectivistic mindset that de-emphasizes achievement and individuality, and favors political correctness and acceptance of socialistic dogma.
Has anyone had a conversation with a twenty-something lately and asked them to explain or defend any of their views? If they even have any? Or state their personal philosophy with analysis and specifics? They can't. It's all platitudes and utilitarian trivia and displaced blame for their failings and confusion.
We need to go to private, capitalistic, "for profit" schools where there is competition to produce the best kids. The current system is the equivalent of educational Obamacare, with all the "fail" that one would expect.
I did my homework (as did others) before moving. I concluded that our local public school system yielded superior results to most (but not all) of the top private schools.
So what do I mean by "superior results"?
For me, I think they do a better job with EDUCATING our kids. New Jersey's core standards are really strong--much more son than we were kids. In our district, the teachers are fantastic--a great combo of creative w/academics. Our district in particular is about a full year ahead of the privates in science and social study and I have been told that is about standard for all J factor districts. So strictly from a "what they learn" POV, I am really comfortable with my choice. Plus--so far, the kids have been pretty nice kids--polite, self assured and civic minded.
Having said that......
Nothing is nirvana.
As my children get older, the academic pressures ratchet up significantly. In this district, kids often default to the better private schools for a more supportive, smaller classroom environment. Schools such as Pingry, Morristown Beard, Montclair Kimberly, Gil St. Bernard, Newark Academy--etc---they all offer VERY different flavors of the same thing: more creative instruction, smaller class sizes, more access to sports and arts. That sort of thing.
But it comes at a cost: $35k/year.
So any discerning parent has to consider that cost, PLUS the cost of high property taxes, and try and justify it. Many do....we just haven't. Yet.
But on the whole, I really think NJ public schools are fantastic--and we have moved around and we toured schools in various parts of the country.
I couldn't say anything about any school other than the one my kids went to. I do know the school was a NJ State Blue Ribbon School before my kids started (big banner & ribbon hanging in the lobby) and that would be over 10 years ago.
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And a serious question: Why teach at a Catholic school where you'll make half of what you would at a public school, without a pension, and much worse benefits, if you can get a job at a Public school? You don't even need to be a certified teacher to teach at a Catholic school. Most of my Catholic school teachers were either fresh out of college, or uncertified older teachers.
I thought people went in to teaching for the kids?
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Starting salary for teachers at most Catholic schools is usually in the $20,000s. I'd be surprised if the average overall salary is higher than $39,000.
It varies by county. I taught at the highest paid district in Sussex County. Starting salary is about 47K. In Morris County that is an average starting salary. I know a few people in Catholic schools who started at 35K.
NJ Public school teachers average about $63,000 a year, with benefits and a pension. If you can get a public school job, its a no brainer.
That's the problem - it's not only about the $$, but it's also a no-brainer. Fresh out of college with a BA in Education - the only experience that teacher has is when he/she student taught (aka: assisted the classroom teacher, got one week to go for it on his/her own while being supervised by teacher) for a semester. Everything else learned is theory.
With the Alternate Route program, you've got a lot of certified teachers who learned all the theory in one year - consisting of one night a week and a few hours on a Saturday.
I have 5 immediate family members who went to RU. Between all of them more than 2 had TA's teach a semester of a class when the "Prof" went on sabbatical to "research". So some MA student or PhD student took the class over and "taught".
How many college Professors have a background in education?
Or is it just about shoveling info out and not really "teaching" at the college level?
that's correct, public schools aren't free, it's pay by tax dollars, for example, my town pays $10k per student per year, through taxes.
Mine is around 12K. And there is NO way my kids are going to step one foot in the public school system. No Matter where we lived.
Just my preference.
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Unless you are super wealthy, why would anyone pay $50k per kid when you can get free public education?
Some people believe in private education, just as some believe in public education, and will sacrifice petty enjoyments to send their kids to a private school.
You don't have to be "super wealthy", you have to be of the mind that your kid's education comes first and if you can swing it? You give up that 2x a year vacation, 3x a week eating out, that expensive car, the all about YOU stuff.
@Sawdustmaker--you are entitled to your opinion but in the spirit of sharing information freely, I just wanted to give you a few things to consider. In our district (Millburn) we don't get many "right out of school" teachers. When we do, they are generally fantastic as every spot that opens up gets hundreds of apps.
Anecdotally, I taught an enrichment class for some of the area schools and have definitely noticed that the behavior and attention span of the public school kids was miles away of the local parochial school. I almost wanted to write a letter to those parents as I felt bad they were wasting their money!
I think private education can be fantastic---but so can public education. It's not about what is "best" but rather what fits your kids. I always imagined I'd send my kids to private, but I can't beat the way my children have become self assured, responsible and ridiculously knowledgable in ways I never imagined when I was a kid. I sometimes think that I had sent them to the private school I considered, they would have missed the opportunity to have become as responsible and "with it" as they have.... They are very centered, well rounded and well educated small people--and sometimes I think I might have missed a bit of that if the school I had sent them to was more coddling.
So not arguing--just making the point that it's not so black and white.
I'm curious. I grew up in Brooklyn in the 80's. Most everyone I knew growing up went to parochial school. NYC Public schools at the time were not well regarded or favored.
Since moving to NJ, I see such a differentiation in mentality. Everyone wants to live in a good town with good public schools but nobody suggests moving a nice or decent town and sending your kids to a private school. Huge deals are made on the status of the public schools in towns when people inquire about potentially buying there. It was the standard m.o. for me growing up.
it's because NJ happens to have a lot of great public schools, and high school taxes to go along with it. if you're going to live in NJ, why pay high property taxes and send your kids to private school? unless you specifically want them to go to a religious school, i don't see the point. i went to private school through high school, so i'm not anti private school - but the reason we did is because we grew up in an area where in about a 100 mile circle, there was 1 decent public school.
You can find good public schools all over America that do a good job educating their students without home owners being soaked to death with insane property taxes. Why some people in NJ are conditioned to believe that outrageous property taxes are vital for good public schools is beyond me.
i'd love some examples of places with highly regarded public schools and whatever you consider to be "low" property taxes.
Phillips Exeter which is a few miles from here is over 36K a year to start for a day student. Almost 50k for a boarding student. Add a couple of thousand for misc expenses so you can easily hit 70k a year boarding, 45 for a day student.
A quick look at a state like Tx where they spend from 7.5k to about 9.5k per student.Most Texas districts do not receive money based on what it costs to educate a student there. Instead, the state bases what districts receive largely on how much they raised through property taxes that year. Low income area schools are far from good. come from a big money area and the schools are much better. anyone with the resources send their kids to private schools. Low costs mean a higher teacher to student ratio. Cost staff and that goes up.
But cost per student really doesn't mean the school is better or worse.
Last edited by rscalzo; 11-22-2013 at 03:04 PM..
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