Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Apparently you don't understand that in a free country, employment should be a private agreement which either party can terminate at will for any or no reason. Nobody OWES you employment. It's a free agreement to trade time and/or talent for money. You are not owed, and have absolutely no right, to any job, or any wage. If an employer doesn't like the color of your shirt, you should be gone. And vice versa. Freedom means freedom. You are free to work or not work for any person. And for any wage you can convince someone to pay you. Employers should be free to offer any damned pay they want, and as long as someone shows up and says yes, all is good.
But how does the employer have to right to any asset, or capital, or whatever that makes that person an employer? It is certain laws we have as a society that allow for this to even be a concept. So why cant employment be the same?
The OP is really a hypocrite.
Unless he is an independent, not affiliated Real estate broker he belongs to one of the strongest unions in NJ and that is the GSMLS or any number of the real estate organizations that controls the real estate commission fees.
Remember those low fee RE brokers that you used to see advertised all over NJ, where are they now?
Out of Business because that full fee brokers would not deal with them. Who could blame them, why settle for a partial commission when the 6% commission was SOP.
The OP can p**s and moan all he want about unions but he belongs to one of the strongest unions in NJ.
GSMLS is just a listings website. NJ has a bunch of regional association that ultimately answer to the NAR.
The trades you mentioned are in fact professionals. And don't need unions to succeed. And shouldn't be allowed to form closed shops that force others to deal with them as protected monopolies. I have no problem with trade associations or "Open" unions where the choice to join is left up to the individual who can evaluate the union and see if membership makes sense. If it doesn't, he should NEVER be forced to join. And no union should be allowed to negotiate for anyone on a forced basis. And no employer should ever have to deal with a union that forces membership.
Open unions good. Free unions good. Closed shops? Evil. Bad. Must be gotten rid of.
So the eff what? What's the point? Each trade can certify or guarantee excellence in any way they see fit, as long as it is free, open, non-exclusive, and can compete openly and freely WITHOUT ANY GOVERNMENT PROTECTION OF ANY KIND. Accountants can create and sell the CPA designation. Lawyers have bar associations. University offer degrees.
Fine, if the trade unions are OPEN and OPTIONAL and FREE and NON-COMPULSORY. JUST LIKE POCKET LISTINGS, which are private agreements freely entered into by private parties.
Are you getting this freedom thing?
All fine, IF THE UNIONS ARE OPEN, FREE, NON-COMPULSORY, and NON-PROTECTED by governments or laws or other artificial turf-protection mechanisms.
Are you getting this freedom thing?
NO CLOSED SHOPS. NO FORCED NEGOTIATION. UNIONS DON'T GET TO ORGANIZE BLOCKS OF WORKERS against their will. No employer is FORCED to negotiate with any union. NO EFFING UNION MOBS! A mob being defined as a group of people who seek political protection to exclude others due to the fact they want to protect their turf from COMPETITION.
Only free associations that bring value, compete, and must survive by convincing individuals to join using ONLY RATIONAL PERSUASION.
Are you getting this freedom thing? Rational persuasion? Good. Join my union and pay dues because we do this and that and x and y and z? Great. Join my union because we can force employers to deal only with us and thug them with government protection into paying us inflated wages. Bad.
Unions to employers: "Deal with us because our members are highly trained, the best at what they do, and have voluntarily allowed us to negotiate fees on their behalf". Good. "Deal with us because we are the only game in town due to the fact that the NLRB says we can force union membership and mandate that you negotiate with us to "protect" the workers. Bad. Or, more accurately: BULL EFFING FECES!
Unions and the union mentality, e.g. seniority, are among the most disgusting features of our mixed economy. They have to go. And I hope they keep committing suicide like they did in Atlantic City. Only through pain and starvation will they learn their lesson.
A lot of these certified pros are just the employers. They sign off on jobs, and make sales pitches. They hire uncertified people who they train of course to actually do the work. I guess you can say those workers are unskilled as they dont have the paper to back it up.
The trades you mentioned are in fact professionals. And don't need unions to succeed. And shouldn't be allowed to form closed shops that force others to deal with them as protected monopolies. I have no problem with trade associations or "Open" unions where the choice to join is left up to the individual who can evaluate the union and see if membership makes sense. If it doesn't, he should NEVER be forced to join. And no union should be allowed to negotiate for anyone on a forced basis. And no employer should ever have to deal with a union that forces membership.
Open unions good. Free unions good. Closed shops? Evil. Bad. Must be gotten rid of.
So the eff what? What's the point? Each trade can certify or guarantee excellence in any way they see fit, as long as it is free, open, non-exclusive, and can compete openly and freely WITHOUT ANY GOVERNMENT PROTECTION OF ANY KIND. Accountants can create and sell the CPA designation. Lawyers have bar associations. University offer degrees.
Fine, if the trade unions are OPEN and OPTIONAL and FREE and NON-COMPULSORY. JUST LIKE POCKET LISTINGS, which are private agreements freely entered into by private parties.
Are you getting this freedom thing?
All fine, IF THE UNIONS ARE OPEN, FREE, NON-COMPULSORY, and NON-PROTECTED by governments or laws or other artificial turf-protection mechanisms.
Are you getting this freedom thing?
NO CLOSED SHOPS. NO FORCED NEGOTIATION. UNIONS DON'T GET TO ORGANIZE BLOCKS OF WORKERS against their will. No employer is FORCED to negotiate with any union. NO EFFING UNION MOBS! A mob being defined as a group of people who seek political protection to exclude others due to the fact they want to protect their turf from COMPETITION.
Only free associations that bring value, compete, and must survive by convincing individuals to join using ONLY RATIONAL PERSUASION.
Are you getting this freedom thing? Rational persuasion? Good. Join my union and pay dues because we do this and that and x and y and z? Great. Join my union because we can force employers to deal only with us and thug them with government protection into paying us inflated wages. Bad.
Unions to employers: "Deal with us because our members are highly trained, the best at what they do, and have voluntarily allowed us to negotiate fees on their behalf". Good. "Deal with us because we are the only game in town due to the fact that the NLRB says we can force union membership and mandate that you negotiate with us to "protect" the workers. Bad. Or, more accurately: BULL EFFING FECES!
Unions and the union mentality, e.g. seniority, are among the most disgusting features of our mixed economy. They have to go. And I hope they keep committing suicide like they did in Atlantic City. Only through pain and starvation will they learn their lesson.
The NLRB does not force union membership, you can choose not to join a union, but since the union negotiates wages a "representation fee" is paid. And guess what, if the employer violates the contract, the union HAS to represent the worker that only pays the representation fee.
If a bidder on a federal contract wins the contract as part of the bid, he agrees to pay "prevailing wages" yes, these are generally union scale, he does not have to employ union workers, but he may end up with a picket line. Or he can be like a tree contractor who took contracts in Rockland County (NY) and then pocketed over $180K by paying his workers less than prevailing wages and pocketing the money.
This entire thread was started by you and your anti-union stance blaming the entire failure of the casino on the "myopic" union. Well this is the USA, the union took a VOTE and obviously a majority of the workers said NO, NO more cuts. That's the same thing that happened at Hostess, the bakers could see the handwriting on the wall. They said NO MORE CUTS. They'd rather work somewhere else than to work for less. As I said previously, management will all walk out millionaires saying it's all the fault of the workers. Watch the movie The Big Short, it's on Netflix, at the end they say the financial crisis will be blamed on the poor, guess what, it was. And the rich people all walk away, relatively unscathed. Savings and Loan Crisis, Enron, Freddie Mac, AIG, Madoff, sure MAYBE 1 or 2 went to jail, but were they the only ones aware of it? But hey it's the unions! The TaJ and the rest of AC are slowly going down hill, some said what about Vegas, well, there's no snow in Vegas, Vegas is an attraction in itself, Pawn Stars is getting to be a destination with their own mall, plus theres the Hoover Dam and other nearby things to do. AC is a couple hours away by car, but so is Bethlehem, or Foxwoods, and the only draw any of them have is gambling or a show, and when it snows it snows. People don't fly in from Iowa to go to AC and visit NYC. But it's the poor working smucks in the union's fault.
The NLRB does not force union membership, you can choose not to join a union, but since the union negotiates wages a "representation fee" is paid. And guess what, if the employer violates the contract, the union HAS to represent the worker that only pays the representation fee.
If a bidder on a federal contract wins the contract as part of the bid, he agrees to pay "prevailing wages" yes, these are generally union scale, he does not have to employ union workers, but he may end up with a picket line. Or he can be like a tree contractor who took contracts in Rockland County (NY) and then pocketed over $180K by paying his workers less than prevailing wages and pocketing the money.
This entire thread was started by you and your anti-union stance blaming the entire failure of the casino on the "myopic" union. Well this is the USA, the union took a VOTE and obviously a majority of the workers said NO, NO more cuts. That's the same thing that happened at Hostess, the bakers could see the handwriting on the wall. They said NO MORE CUTS. They'd rather work somewhere else than to work for less. As I said previously, management will all walk out millionaires saying it's all the fault of the workers. Watch the movie The Big Short, it's on Netflix, at the end they say the financial crisis will be blamed on the poor, guess what, it was. And the rich people all walk away, relatively unscathed. Savings and Loan Crisis, Enron, Freddie Mac, AIG, Madoff, sure MAYBE 1 or 2 went to jail, but were they the only ones aware of it? But hey it's the unions! The TaJ and the rest of AC are slowly going down hill, some said what about Vegas, well, there's no snow in Vegas, Vegas is an attraction in itself, Pawn Stars is getting to be a destination with their own mall, plus theres the Hoover Dam and other nearby things to do. AC is a couple hours away by car, but so is Bethlehem, or Foxwoods, and the only draw any of them have is gambling or a show, and when it snows it snows. People don't fly in from Iowa to go to AC and visit NYC. But it's the poor working smucks in the union's fault.
You gotta admit a guy with a 2 week education on how to chauffeur people from house to house until they find one the like takes a lot of balls to call anybody under-educated.
You gotta admit a guy with a 2 week education on how to chauffeur people from house to house until they find one the like takes a lot of balls to call anybody under-educated.
That would be so true if I didn't own 3 other businesses.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
