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see how nuts people get when you question the importance of their government?
all the sudden its my obligation to devise an alternate society. i didnt devise the modern food distribution system and neither did government but it works pretty good. i can guarantee you that if government did it, people would think that you cant feed a population without government. you just assume this ridiculousness because you dont know any better.
see how nuts people get when you question the importance of their government?
all the sudden its my obligation to devise an alternate society. i didnt devise the modern food distribution system and neither did government but it works pretty good. i can guarantee you that if government did it, people would think that you cant feed a population without government. you just assume this ridiculousness because you dont know any better.
First, you'll get a lot more traction about something by saying that you don't like it because you know of an alternative. It helps give a point more credence. For example, if you say "I don't like ice cream" you sound crazy and it's impossible to deal with that statement, but if you say "I don't like ice cream, I prefer iced custard" at least people know you're a smug douche.
Second, the idea that you can just remove government as a concept in America and not end up in some mashup of the wild wild west serfdom certainly deviates from the any normal line of thinking quite a bit, so it requires an extra amount of rationalization.
I'm not sure I'd use the modern food distribution system as an example of something that works well. There's a ton of waste in the system and many large scale inefficiencies. A lot of the problems in any system private or public are rooted in the fact that people are greedy. In a public system this shows up as corruption, in a private system this shows up with a consolidation of wealth. The purpose of a Democratic government is to make sure that people don't get powerful enough that people's rights disappear. While one can argue how effectively any specific government does that, it's hard to argue that removing government altogether is going to make any aspect of that situation any better.
Thirdly, Your name implies that you are a fan of governmental structures, one can't be a captain without rising above the enlisted ranks. New Jersey is a solely governmental construct, the name is a tribute to loyalty for the monarchy during the English Civil War. It might be worthwhile to ask the Lenape how having essentially no government worked out for them.
As far as I'm concerned, I prefer to live in a society. I'm fine with paying taxes, and you can trust me that I have a pretty formidable tax bill at this point. I'd prefer to reduce corruption. I like ice cream and iced custard heck, even frozen yogurt.
I'm fine with paying taxes, and you can trust me that I have a pretty formidable tax bill at this point.
"look at me, i make a lot of money!"
the alternative to the current situation is a much smaller government that only regulates where necessary and doesnt try to control our lives. you start chopping off unnecessary federal departments and slice some of them down to a role of oversight not provision of services. you end social security. you chop off about 90% of the military. im not exactly sure where you end up, maybe 25% of where we are at today.
all the sudden its my obligation to devise an alternate society.
Well, yeah. You want to get rid of it, you need to at least suggest a replacement. Otherwise you literally do get places like Somalia where the government failed and people with guns took over.
"Hospitals are bad!"
"How should we take care of the sick?"
"That's the problem for the sick! Details!"
Your handwaving away the issues is just as bad as blind faith in any religion.
End social security? The system that I have literally been paying into my entire working life?
Then give me back my money. I don't even care about the interest. Give me back my money.
What's your solution?
so that is the answer? dont end it because ive been paying into a ponsi scheme all my life and i want my money? you are only able to say that because currently there is money left in the "fund" (even though there kinda really isnt) but probably within 2 decades that money will come straight out of tax collections (and it is a lot of money to pay out).
i dont know exactly what the best way is to end it. i have various ideas on how to end it. id love everyone to get their money back but that would add to a debt obligation.
the ongoing program could also be various options. id suggest simply rolling poor seniors into a welfare program. so the obligation is reduced to not include everyone who lives past a certain age.
see how nuts people get when you question the importance of their government?
Yep. Dependence is a horrible and unfortunate human trait. The more govt makes us dependent on it the more impossible it is to reverse course. Look at the responses in this thread to one of the worst social programs that could ever possibly be devised, Social Security.
Cradle to grave government help is the default position of too many in today's society. Gov't has a role no doubt but it has grown to behemoth status and invaded literally every aspect of our lives. Gov't's job is to enforce the laws, protect it's citizens (this means border & national security), care for the elderly and sick, fiercely protect private property rights and contract law and pretty much get the fk out of the way and let the innovative people of this country create and innovate.
The response to this is silly that it would be anarchy. No. Read point the points over again. It is all in there.
so that is the answer? dont end it because ive been paying into a ponsi scheme all my life and i want my money? you are only able to say that because currently there is money left in the "fund" (even though there kinda really isnt) but probably within 2 decades that money will come straight out of tax collections (and it is a lot of money to pay out).
i dont know exactly what the best way is to end it. i have various ideas on how to end it. id love everyone to get their money back but that would add to a debt obligation.
the ongoing program could also be various options. id suggest simply rolling poor seniors into a welfare program. so the obligation is reduced to not include everyone who lives past a certain age.
SS is the single most ridiculous gov program ever concocted. Imagine paying 14% (oh yes, YOU, the individual pays the whole thing, the company you work for simply does the accounting on the 7% they supposedly pay) of your salary your whole life into something that if you die 2 years after your eligible, poof it goes up in smoke.
I challenge anyone to do the math and see the nest egg you would build by taking 14% of your lifetime salary out and applying just a conservative rate of growth to it. Generations would be better off, instead the ponzi scheme continues because it is a political third rail and certain politicians use it to scare folks into thinking only the govt can keep that money safe. BS.
This derailment has been, ah, fun, but I'm thrilled that we'll never live in a world where these Libertarian ideals will ever come to pass.
Best of luck!
you think you will have the opportunity to continue how it is? like i said, soon social security will be paying everything out of tax revenue. you also have the tremendous interest expense on $19 trillion+ in debt. like it or not, things will change significantly. but the current plan is to just pass the obligation on the next generation so they are screwed. the baby boomer generation and the one before are the greediest of all time and they couldnt care less about next generations.
that $18 trillion in debt, doesnt even have to be paid back. get ready for that default.
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