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Old 04-08-2008, 12:20 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
316 posts, read 596,227 times
Reputation: 71

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Sorry!

I would like to apologize: Please take the time to read the following: Thank You. Joe.

Insights into the Torah Judaism’s attitude toward the Jewish woman in general, and emphasizing the special role of the Jewish mother.

The mother’s virtuous influence within the home achieves, as our prophets teach us, a central role in all that happens, and is regarded as a factor of fundamental significance.

From a Jewish point of view, the real sources of life, the genuinely creative forces, are not what is played out on the broad stage of history. Their roots go much deeper. They are concealed in the mystery of human development, in the mystery of family life, and their most prominent protagonist is the mother.

When the first wife is presented to Adam, the first man, the Bible adorns her with the honorable characteristic: ‘She is the mother of all that lives’. “In that respect, the same relationship which prevails on the general human level, governs religious life, as reflected in the total performance of the nation of Jews. Outwardly religious activity, including community service and synagogue worship, as well as predominance in the study halls, is the domain of the man. But the ultimate bearers of all religious energy and all Jewish activity, though somewhat shrouded in a mystic fog, are not the men but the women, the mothers.

The story of the Patriarchs establishes that the mother as the crucial factor in the future of our nation. It is not all of the seed of Abraham which is chosen as the recipient of the Divine blessing; it is only the one who is Sarah’s son. Not Esau, though favored by his father Isaak, but Jacob, who is under his mother’s influence, becomes the successor to the Abrahamitic covenant.” It is only with Abraham that the wife and mother steps forward into the limelight of history. Against the background of the Jewish past, with the establishment of matrimony as the consecrated basis of all that is human, the wife is assigned her role in the total range of mankind’s affairs. No longer is she regarded as just an object of lust and a means for exploitation under the control of men. It is her task as the educator of the children which secures her noble status.

Concerning the impact on the child’s upbringing, the mother’s hereditary disposition is profound. It seems that our Sages regarded the character traits inherited from the mother’s side as of greater consequence, in their imprint upon the child, than those of the father’s side. This consideration is at the root of Judaism’s inalienable statute that the mother determines the Jewishness of her offspring. It is this calling of motherhood which Jewish law values as women’s’ greatest achievement, so much so that it guarantees them equal status with men.

It is long overdue that we toss out the foolish idea that within Judaism, the religious accomplishment of the man has greater value than that of the woman. Our great Torah authorities unanimously agree that the reason for woman’s exemption from time bound Mitzvot is that her role of mother commits her to a higher, constantly fulfilling arena of activity. Just as the Cohanim (Priests) and Leviim (Levites) would not wear their Tefillin (phylacteries) while serving in the Holy Temple (Talmud Zevachim 19), because the hallowed milieu of the Temple itself rendered the ornaments on the forehead and arm superfluous as reminders of the Divine presence, the Jewish woman, who has built her home on foundations of Yirat Shamayim, a home where decency and dignity prevail, does not need the Tefillin as a constant reminder of her higher responsibilities. In her home, she is the priestess. There is no other feat which can compare to motherhood, whether in public life, administrative service, the heroics of war, or even the devotion to scholarly pursuits.

The prophetess Deborah, who successfully conducted a campaign of war, and who, thanks to her prophetic powers, preserved the flame of Torah in Judaism during trying times, earning her the honorary title of Eshet Lapidot, a woman of flame-like courage, and who rendered justice to the people of Israel, acknowledges that she only desired to be ‘a mother in Israel.’ ‘Chaotic conditions prevailed in Israel, until I arose, I Deborah, [just a mother in Israel.’ (Shoftim (Judicum) 5;7) Once a woman has accomplished this, ‘her children stand up and applaud her; her husband proclaims her glory. No matter what great things other women have achieved, you rank higher than all of them.” (Proverbs 31; 28,29)

It is astounding how so very sure certain spokeswomen are of themselves, in claiming religious expertise. It is nothing short of grotesque, the presumptuousness with which you cloak yourselves overnight in the mantle of Talmud scholars. Here come total lay-people, who cannot even read the Talmud, nor do they have the vaguest notion regarding the method or nature of Talmudic interpretation. And yet they dare tackle it heedlessly, without realizing how much injury they cause to the religious perception of Judaism and its honor.

Anyone questioning the Talmud’s position regarding women’s status of honor in the Jewish family structure, should know undoubtedly that the Talmud spells it out in no uncertain terms: “He who loves his wife as himself, but honors her more than himself, is reassured that his home is based on underpinnings of peace (Yebamot 62).” Maimonides, too, (Rambam; Ishut chapter 15) uses this Talmudic quote in laying out the foundations for a secure Jewish home: The Sages of the Talmud instructed the husband that he shall honor his wife more than himself and love her as he loves himself Similarly, they instructed the wife that she honor her husband in extraordinary fashion. Such is the way of Jewish women and men who are holy and pure in their matrimony, and with these ways their home life will be beautiful and praiseworthy. No other civilization, no other culture or religion can compare in assigning such a measure of dignity and high regard as Torah and Talmud do for the Jewish women.

I am not coming G-D forbid to attack or harass anybody. Please feel free to post to your hearts content. I was speaking with the above stated in mind. I apologize if anybody feels or felt offended. That was not, and is not my objective. I was posting in response to a woman who was posing as an authentic orthodox individual – who – from a strictly religious perspective should not be offering “clergy” services.

I apologize To All!

 
Old 04-09-2008, 09:40 AM
 
196 posts, read 768,153 times
Reputation: 101
Calling people rude because of their religion is not right. Rude people come in all guises. It's not religion-come on now. It's a beautiful day out and we should be enjoying it.
 
Old 04-14-2008, 02:49 PM
 
32 posts, read 167,426 times
Reputation: 43
I couldn't believe what 'Rabbi Joe' wrote. I had to read and re-read his hysterical insane post. I am convinced he's a provocateur whose aim it is to make Jews look bad.
 
Old 04-14-2008, 04:16 PM
 
Location: NJ
2,210 posts, read 7,027,192 times
Reputation: 2193
Quote:
Originally Posted by luciusFlorio View Post
I couldn't believe what 'Rabbi Joe' wrote. I had to read and re-read his hysterical insane post. I am convinced he's a provocateur whose aim it is to make Jews look bad.
I think he is a teenager. Just past Bar Mitzvah and getting big for his boots.
 
Old 04-14-2008, 04:42 PM
 
57 posts, read 309,753 times
Reputation: 44
Joe's attitude is unfortunately typical of many of the Yeshiva Haredi in Lakewood.
there is an arrogance that seems to permeate the community. I believe it is unique to Lakewood, although friends up in Rockland county tell similar stories. Growing up in Brooklyn and attending Yeshiva till 6th grade i never experienced anything like what i see here. There is truly a feeling among these Lakewood Haredi that they literally own the town. my neighbors believe this and have told me so many times.

While rudeness and arrogance seems to be the rule in Lakewood there are many exceptions. i have met many sweet, lovely and friendly Haredi Jews. perhaps it just seems that most are rude because the unpleasant people stand out.

As for Judaism being sexist. Women and men have different rolls as in many faiths. It's religion not the workplace. If you think that is sexist then don't practice Judaism.
 
Old 04-14-2008, 08:00 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
316 posts, read 596,227 times
Reputation: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
Joe's attitude is unfortunately typical of many of the Yeshiva Haredi in Lakewood.
there is an arrogance that seems to permeate the community. I believe it is unique to Lakewood, although friends up in Rockland county tell similar stories. Growing up in Brooklyn and attending Yeshiva till 6th grade i never experienced anything like what i see here. There is truly a feeling among these Lakewood Haredi that they literally own the town. my neighbors believe this and have told me so many times.

While rudeness and arrogance seems to be the rule in Lakewood there are many exceptions. i have met many sweet, lovely and friendly Haredi Jews. perhaps it just seems that most are rude because the unpleasant people stand out.

As for Judaism being sexist. Women and men have different rolls as in many faiths. It's religion not the workplace. If you think that is sexist then don't practice Judaism.
I pitty the fact that you left yeshiva in the 6th grade. How sad. At least I understand your mindset. Your bitter and will put an ugly twist on what you were uncapable of accomplishing!

In a way though I appreciate your truthfullness about that though. From your above post it is quiet obvious that you are not religious and do not have the knowledge required to understand religion. At least you are not saying these things after going through a Yeshiva system.

You can always do Teshuva! You can start by guarding your tounge.

Quote:
I think he is a teenager. Just past Bar Mitzvah and getting big for his boots.
Ahh the mystique! Well- i'm sure if you have no knowledge of how to read or understand scripture pertaining to the religion, you have to post some nonesence! Cute post!!
 
Old 04-14-2008, 08:03 PM
 
3,269 posts, read 9,936,557 times
Reputation: 2025
Speaking of learning, one might suggest an English class or two for you, Rabbi Joe.
 
Old 04-15-2008, 12:37 AM
 
32 posts, read 167,426 times
Reputation: 43
Rabbi Joe, zeit nistalek fun du yetzt! di machst a groise chillul hashem. Siz a busha vecharpa viazoy du redst tzu a bas yisroel kesheira, nuch fun lakewood.
 
Old 04-15-2008, 01:36 AM
 
57 posts, read 309,753 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by RABBI JOE View Post
I pitty the fact that you left yeshiva in the 6th grade. How sad. At least I understand your mindset. Your bitter and will put an ugly twist on what you were uncapable of accomplishing!

In a way though I appreciate your truthfullness about that though. From your above post it is quiet obvious that you are not religious and do not have the knowledge required to understand religion. At least you are not saying these things after going through a Yeshiva system.

You can always do Teshuva! You can start by guarding your tounge.
WOW! I really don't no what your problem is.
Is it too much to ask that an orthodox Jew be happy and show that happiness to the world by smiling once in a while?
I see misery on the face of so many Yeshivish, especially their wives. perhaps it is this unhappiness that is manifest in rude behavior?

maybe some Haredi should spend more time Dovining (praying) and slow down a little while doing it as to really hear the words. I guess when you pray by ritual at 100 miles per hour you forget what spirituality is really about. spitting out the prayers as fast as you can so that technically you have fulfilled your obligation in as short a time period as passable. you may be abiding by the letter of the law but what about the spirit of the law?
Saying the same words by rote day after day ritual after ritual without really thinking.

You seem you enjoy personal attacks. I'll have you know that my Yeshiva experience was a miserable one and i was glad to get away from it. that is not because there is anything wrong with Judaism but because back in the 60's and 70's they really didn't know how to inspire a child. I'm very sure that they sent plenty of Jewish children into the spiritual abiss. While Jew School sucked it didn't stop me from proudly embracing my Jewishness.

On the other hand my son is getting a wonderful Jewish education and having a great time to boot. He goes to a schechter school and we have no complaints. not only that but we don't have to throw away our family computer.

My family is happy in our Judaism and it shows.
If you were happy in yours it would show.
 
Old 04-15-2008, 06:59 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
316 posts, read 596,227 times
Reputation: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
WOW! I really don't no what your problem is.
Is it too much to ask that an orthodox Jew be happy and show that happiness to the world by smiling once in a while?
I see misery on the face of so many Yeshivish, especially their wives. perhaps it is this unhappiness that is manifest in rude behavior?
Pure speculation. If there is any truth to your claim.
It is very easy to find what to be happy about in regard to this world....

Quote:
maybe some Haredi should spend more time Dovining (praying) and slow down a little while doing it as to really hear the words. I guess when you pray by ritual at 100 miles per hour you forget what spirituality is really about. spitting out the prayers as fast as you can so that technically you have fulfilled your obligation in as short a time period as passable. you may be abiding by the letter of the law but what about the spirit of the law?
Saying the same words by rote day after day ritual after ritual without really thinking.
You are correct - Davan slowly and think about what you are saying and before whom you stand - absolutely!

Quote:
You seem you enjoy personal attacks. I'll have you know that my Yeshiva experience was a miserable one and i was glad to get away from it. that is not because there is anything wrong with Judaism but because back in the 60's and 70's they really didn't know how to inspire a child. I'm very sure that they sent plenty of Jewish children into the spiritual abiss. While Jew School sucked it didn't stop me from proudly embracing my Jewishness.
Nothing personal.. Sorry....
I guess your perspective is all personal... as is the one school you speak about!

Quote:
On the other hand my son is getting a wonderful Jewish education and having a great time to boot. He goes to a schechter school and we have no complaints. not only that but we don't have to throw away our family computer.
I wonder of the percentage bar!

Quote:
My family is happy in our Judaism and it shows.
If you were happy in yours it would show.
What is happiness in Judaism? It exists, but what is it?
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