Is New Jersey Really that Horrible? (Morristown: movies, places to live, restaurants)
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"The fact that you are calling Morris and Somerset Counties "urban" is beyond laughter. Way beyond."
Laugh all you want, city boy. Per the US Census Burea, a Census block is defined as "urban" if it has a population density greater than 1000 per square mile, and an "urban area" is a contiguous group of urban Census blocks with a combined population of at least 50,000 people. In 2000, Morris' population density was 1003 per square mile- that of course includes the suburban areas balancing out the actual local densities of the urban areas, and yet the county as a whole is still classified by the census bureau as "urban" based on population density. And never mind 50,000 people, there were 470,000 in the county in 2000. Oh, and Somerset narrowly escaped an overall "urban" classification in 2000 census w ith a pop. density of 976. It's not too hard to tell that more of that county is urban than suburban if the -overall- density comes out to just barely below the "urban" threshold. Sorry.
I just noticed you list your location as "downtown Jersey City". That just agrees further with my previous comments about frames of reference for such things.
Anyway, I've said what I wanted to regarding this state. PEople who like being satellities tied to NYC don't mind paying for "location, location", people who don't give two hoots about NYC (or Philly, for the southerners) think it's a an expensive, inconvenient, overcrowded wasteland. That really is pretty much all it comes down to is people who like the city/sprawl/proximity to it ,for whom the benefits otuweigh the costs; and those who dislike/don't care one way or the other about these things and therefore find it expensive and stressful with costs for goods/services that are way out of range for the goods/services actually rendered.
Morris' population density was 1003 per square mile- that of course includes the suburban areas balancing out the actual local densities of the urban areas,
You said it yourself.
So, let me get this strait. If I took a sizable portion of Upstate NY and combined it with NYC, then all of it would be considered "urban" by your, and teh Census bureau's definition of it?
I cry BS a hundred fold and you are splitting more hairs than a shampoo commercial. Define it however you want, and continue to insult those around you and try to demean their post by implied degredation ("City boy"). You are not contributing to anything but discord when you do that and you know it.
"The fact that you are calling Morris and Somerset Counties "urban" is beyond laughter. Way beyond."
Laugh all you want, city boy. Per the US Census Burea, a Census block is defined as "urban" if it has a population density greater than 1000 per square mile, and an "urban area" is a contiguous group of urban Census blocks with a combined population of at least 50,000 people. In 2000, Morris' population density was 1003 per square mile- that of course includes the suburban areas balancing out the actual local densities of the urban areas, and yet the county as a whole is still classified by the census bureau as "urban" based on population density. And never mind 50,000 people, there were 470,000 in the county in 2000. Oh, and Somerset narrowly escaped an overall "urban" classification in 2000 census w ith a pop. density of 976. It's not too hard to tell that more of that county is urban than suburban if the -overall- density comes out to just barely below the "urban" threshold. Sorry.
I just noticed you list your location as "downtown Jersey City". That just agrees further with my previous comments about frames of reference for such things.
Anyway, I've said what I wanted to regarding this state. PEople who like being satellities tied to NYC don't mind paying for "location, location", people who don't give two hoots about NYC (or Philly, for the southerners) think it's a an expensive, inconvenient, overcrowded wasteland. That really is pretty much all it comes down to is people who like the city/sprawl/proximity to it ,for whom the benefits otuweigh the costs; and those who dislike/don't care one way or the other about these things and therefore find it expensive and stressful with costs for goods/services that are way out of range for the goods/services actually rendered.
I don't think you will find *one* person who agrees with you that Morris County is urban. Not even one.
There is not one urban area in Morris. There are zero cities. Urban means city...right? Even Morristown is not a city, at 18,000 people. It is a township.
Drive through Chester Township (Morris County) and tell me you're in an urban area. This is too funny.
You seem like an overall miserable person...if you dislike the state so much, it'd probably be in your best interest to live elsewhere.
"I don't think you will find *one* person who agrees with you that Morris County is urban. Not even one."
In NJ that might be true. (actually I take that back, plenty of folks in Warren and Susex that I know DO agree!!) I'm talking about the rest of the world's perception/definition. And if you really want to go down that road, Morristown is incorporated as a TOWN, not a Township. In NJ, only the very biggest places are incorporated as "cities"- Paterson, NEwark, etc. are th only places big enough to be bestowed with that title. But these are just words- "urban" is not defined by the nature of the municipla structure, it is defined by population density. In NY or NEw England, there are incorporated "cities" with populations under 10,000. In NJ we'd call them a small town.
"Chester Township"
Ok, where did I ever say there are NO suburban areas in Morris? I've freely admitted that there are some. Ok, so Chester Township and a couple of others at the extremeities o fthe county are MUCH less populous than the majority of the county, and at first glance might almost appear to be rural in a few places. Your point was? The exceptions don't prove the rule. The fact that there are some much less populated places in the county dont' change the overall population and land use for the majority of the county.
"So, let me get this strait. If I took a sizable portion of Upstate NY and combined it with NYC, then all of it would be considered "urban" by your, and teh Census bureau's definition of it?"
Nope, nice try though. Overall pop. density for state of NEw York is about 400, EVEN WITH the inclusion of NYC and Long Island and the Hudson Valley- one of the largest cities, surrounded by one of the largest metro areas in the world! This accurately reflects the fact that most of NY oustide of the NYC area is rural, but does have numerous smaller urban and suburban areas mixed in- and actually some pretty significant urban areas as well, such as out towards Buffalo. Just as Morris' population density of just over 1000 makes sense for an area that encompasses the urban/suburban fringe.
Call it whatever you want, but contray to popular mythology there is NO wilderness in Warren or Sussex counties...
"You seem like an overall miserable person..."
Speaking of insults.... those who live in glass houses and all of that....
"if you dislike the state so much, it'd probably be in your best interest to live elsewhere."
I said in my first post that I only live here because of friends and family;-)
People from elsewhere wanted to know if/why NJ is "horrible". I just gave some common reasons and examples of why many people feel the way they do. No need to get in a pi55ing contest about what percentage of a certain county is urban! Sheesh, don't start a fire if you can't take the heat.
Oh, I used to be one of those who said NJ's not so bad, there are lots of nice places... and there are still some, but a lot less than there used to be; and as I've gone out into the world and persued my career and met more and more people and travelled more and more places both in NJ and elsewhere, I've found that even many of the areas that look "nice" are still nothing more that suburban satellites of the city, that NJ's definition of rural is still thickly populous by most standards, and that the associated materialism and status-seeking pervade every corner of the state regardless of how nice things may look from the outside. Unless you're a recluse, you just can't escape the city in this state, it influences everything even in the lesser populated parts.
"I don't think you will find *one* person who agrees with you that Morris County is urban. Not even one."
In NJ that might be true. (actually I take that back, plenty of folks in Warren and Susex that I know DO agree!!) I'm talking about the rest of the world's perception/definition. And if you really want to go down that road, Morristown is incorporated as a TOWN, not a Township. In NJ, only the very biggest places are incorporated as "cities"- Paterson, NEwark, etc. are th only places big enough to be bestowed with that title. But these are just words- "urban" is not defined by the nature of the municipla structure, it is defined by population density. In NY or NEw England, there are incorporated "cities" with populations under 10,000. In NJ we'd call them a small town.
"Chester Township"
Ok, where did I ever say there are NO suburban areas in Morris? I've freely admitted that there are some. Ok, so Chester Township and a couple of others at the extremeities o fthe county are MUCH less populous than the majority of the county, and at first glance might almost appear to be rural in a few places. Your point was? The exceptions don't prove the rule. The fact that there are some much less populated places in the county dont' change the overall population and land use for the majority of the county.
"So, let me get this strait. If I took a sizable portion of Upstate NY and combined it with NYC, then all of it would be considered "urban" by your, and teh Census bureau's definition of it?"
Nope, nice try though. Overall pop. density for state of NEw York is about 400, EVEN WITH the inclusion of NYC and Long Island and the Hudson Valley- one of the largest cities, surrounded by one of the largest metro areas in the world! This accurately reflects the fact that most of NY oustide of the NYC area is rural, but does have numerous smaller urban and suburban areas mixed in- and actually some pretty significant urban areas as well, such as out towards Buffalo. Just as Morris' population density of just over 1000 makes sense for an area that encompasses the urban/suburban fringe.
Call it whatever you want, but contray to popular mythology there is NO wilderness in Warren or Sussex counties...
"You seem like an overall miserable person..."
Speaking of insults.... those who live in glass houses and all of that....
"if you dislike the state so much, it'd probably be in your best interest to live elsewhere."
I said in my first post that I only live here because of friends and family;-)
People from elsewhere wanted to know if/why NJ is "horrible". I just gave some common reasons and examples of why many people feel the way they do. No need to get in a pi55ing contest about what percentage of a certain county is urban! Sheesh, don't start a fire if you can't take the heat.
Oh, I used to be one of those who said NJ's not so bad, there are lots of nice places... and there are still some, but a lot less than there used to be; and as I've gone out into the world and persued my career and met more and more people and travelled more and more places both in NJ and elsewhere, I've found that even many of the areas that look "nice" are still nothing more that suburban satellites of the city, that NJ's definition of rural is still thickly populous by most standards, and that the associated materialism and status-seeking pervade every corner of the state regardless of how nice things may look from the outside. Unless you're a recluse, you just can't escape the city in this state, it influences everything even in the lesser populated parts.
Well, what else is more important than friends and family? In my life, it's friends and family that define my "quality of life". Other things that define my personal quality of life are: access to the cultural beacon that is NYC, and this cultural amazingness transcends into NJ as well. People of NJ (for the most part!!) are of a much higher class *culturally* than people from many other states. The beach also adds to my quality of life.
How do you define "quality of life" ? Is it what I listed above, or is it superficial things like, "well, I can get a bigger piece of property in NC", or "my taxes would be half the price if I moved to PA". Are you basing the quality of your life on money matters? We are living our lives to LIVE them, not to stretch our dollars the furthest possible. Really...what's more important than family and friends?
Ever spend time in the Midwest, outside of Chicago? Cultural WASTELAND. They wouldn't know a good restaurant if it bit them in the rear end.
There are good people from all over this country...but from my experiences, people of NJ tend to be more educated, more worldly, and more open to all cultures than people from *most* other states. And I do business with people from all over the country, coast to coast.
I'm curious NJBear...after reading my post, what is your ideal state to live in?
as well. People of NJ (for the most part!!) are of a much higher class *culturally* than people from many other states.
tommyc_37 While I applaud your support of NJ, some people in the rest of the country watching "The Real Housewives of NJ" are definitely going to get the wrong impression!
[/QUOTE=tommyc_37;9323417]How do you define "quality of life" ? Is it what I listed above, or is it superficial things like, "well, I can get a bigger piece of property in NC", or "my taxes would be half the price if I moved to PA". Are you basing the quality of your life on money matters? We are living our lives to LIVE them, not to stretch our dollars the furthest possible. Really...what's more important than family and friends?
[/quote]
Money does matter, especially in a high-cost area like NJ! If you don't have much money, the quality of your life is going to suffer, no matter how fond you are of friends and family!
[/QUOTE=tommyc_37;9323417]There are good people from all over this country...but from my experiences, people of NJ tend to be more educated, more worldly, and more open to all cultures than people from *most* other states. And I do business with people from all over the country, coast to coast.
[/quote]
I agree wholeheartedly with this one!
[/QUOTE=tommyc_37;9323417]I'm curious NJBear...after reading my post, what is your ideal state to live in?
[/quote]
Well, I don't know what he thinks, but anyplace that puts you in a good "State of Mind" is good enough for me!
Anyway, I've said what I wanted to regarding this state. PEople who like being satellities tied to NYC don't mind paying for "location, location", people who don't give two hoots about NYC (or Philly, for the southerners) think it's a an expensive, inconvenient, overcrowded wasteland. That really is pretty much all it comes down to is people who like the city/sprawl/proximity to it ,for whom the benefits otuweigh the costs; and those who dislike/don't care one way or the other about these things and therefore find it expensive and stressful with costs for goods/services that are way out of range for the goods/services actually rendered.
This is quite a broad, presumptuous and ridiculous statement. I have a feeling that you are very young.....
You're turning what I said into a contest about "Nj is better than x because of y". Give it a rest. You don't like my reasons for disliking NJ and I don't like your reasons for liking it. So it goes.
Sure friends and family is the best part... but money available to spend on the quality things in life, time to spend on teh quality things in life, background stress level... these are all big factors in how one is able to experience quality time, icnluding time iwth firends and family; and also to have a balanced psychological state to be able to appreciate life. Does it really matter that there's a big city nearby, a nice restaurant on every corner, etc. if you don't have money or time to enjoy them, or are always just chilling out from the daily stress when it's time to start the cycle over again? Does that traffic noise in the background when you sit out on the deck on Saturday afternoon soothe you, or does it subconsciously annoy the heck out of you? Better still, in places where people aren't packed like sardines and always in a hurry and always stressed, real communities are the norm rather than the exception. People look out fo r each other, help each other... nobody gives a rat about the new show opening because we're all going to John and Susie's onsaturday night for some awesome steak on teh grill and Susie's famous rhubarb pie. Likewise, restaurants are a lesser prioirty because people hav ethe time, energy, and state of mind to relax and enjoy home-cooking which bests any reastaurant food any day of the week. The relevance of all this "culture" is itself a social/cultural construct of the urban environment which can a.) support such things due to the number of people, and b.) is pretty much present of necessity because were it not available, everyone would get cagey. Corrollary to that, most everything people do here, most of what there is to do here, requires spending money. It's nice to live in an area where you can have fun without spending money.
I'm sure I'll get flamed for this, but your comments such as "People of NJ (for the most part!!) are of a much higher class *culturally* than people from many other states" or "There are good people from all over this country...but from my experiences, people of NJ tend to be more educated, more worldly, and more open to all cultures than people from *most* other states. " are exactly indicative of the pervasive attitude that turns me off and frankly is a big part of why NJ gets such a bad rap. Think about it. People from Nj are actually jsut as ignorant on average as people from everywhere else, they just think that somehow their sense of entitlement, their proximity to NYC, the fact that they can "make it" in the perpetual rat race here, that they go to Broadway shows or have been "keepingup with the Joneses" all these years or that they once saw Madonna walking the opposite direction on the other side of the street, somehow makes them of a "higher class" or more qualified to understand the world than people with different life expereinces. These people think they are oh so unique, so smart, so worldly. You do realize NYC/NJ area people are the number one source of humor in the vacation spots frequented by these folks, right? The reason is this crappy attitude, coupled with the very ignorance that this attitude attempts to cover up. People from the NYC.Nj metro area -tend-, not always mind you, but -tend- to have pretty limited knowledge of how the rest of the world actually works. But they think they know, because they saw it on TV or googled it or went to the museum or read about it once.
I'll tell you what... people who need to brag about their intelligence, "culture", etc. to others usually are just window dressing or living up to some trend or feel the need to be "better" than others. They "know" what "hip" or "cool" is and follow the herd, so therefore they transfer that identity unto themselves. It's pretty silly really. Big whoop, you know all about Wall Street. Tell me where that gets you outside of an urban area? In my experience urban/suburban people are just as ignorant as rural people, if not moreso, just in different ways. Furthermore, at least rural people might have some semblance of an excuse if they don't have cell service, high speed internet, or a book store every couple miles. People in places liek NJ have more access to more sources of information than almsot anyone else, yet on the whole they still only view the world from their own narrow perspective.
Anyway, to entertain you're curiousity... if my family and friends could all come along, I'd long since be in upstate NY, northern VT or NH, or Maine (somewhere north of Augusta). I don't want to live in a cabin in the woods, just soemwhere where you don't have to make double the median US income jsut to afford a modest house, where you can drive 10 miles at 3 pm on a Tuesday and actually get where you're going in the 15 minutes it should take, where communities are really communities, where I'm not surrounded by people who have nothing to talk about but their "status" in whatever manifestation they chose to brag about it, whther it be resturants or cars or jobs or money or shows or whatever.
"anyplace that puts you in a good "State of Mind" is good enough for me!"
I'm with you there, that's part of what I tire of in NJ... people are rude, stressed out, etc. OR they maintain their peace of mind by burying their heads in the sand and immersing themselves into the money culture or the entertainment culture or the club scene or whatever. People don't NEED all of that to be satisfied in life ;-) Much of it is just a product of the environment, escapism, status seeking, distraction.
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