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Nah I saw your age on your page, I am older. You swerved into the truth. It is very unlikely that people would leave this area and make more money. People don't leave for a variety of reasons but earning potential is up there. Just think of how many people leave the area once they retire.
Again, people's reasons don't matter. The fact that they continue to choose to pay the prices asked means the price is "worth the money" for living in NJ.
Again, people's reasons don't matter. The fact that they continue to choose to pay the prices asked means the price is "worth the money" for living in NJ.
What makes you think it is a choice? There are many reasons why people can't leave. Family, friends, kids, job etc.
What makes you think it is a choice? There are many reasons why people can't leave. Family, friends, kids, job etc.
Those aren't things that "trap" a person or prevent a person from leaving. Those are things that a person chooses to stay for. There is a choice involved.
Those aren't things that "trap" a person or prevent a person from leaving. Those are things that a person chooses to stay for. There is a choice involved.
Unfortunately there are not too many Wall Street jobs in Des Moines or Pharmaceutical maufacturing jobs in Duluth. Many people like their families and like to be near them. There are those selfess families who understand their children have roots and friends here and it woud be disruptive to up root them and move. Yes all these things conspire to trap people.
Unfortunately there are not too many Wall Street jobs in Des Moines or Pharmaceutical maufacturing jobs in Duluth. Many people like their families and like to be near them. There are those selfess families who understand their children have roots and friends here and it woud be disruptive to up root them and move. Yes all these things conspire to trap people.
ok, but if you're in those professions you already know where the jobs are....so how can someone complain about being in an area when they know going in where they need to be?
Unfortunately there are not too many Wall Street jobs in Des Moines or Pharmaceutical maufacturing jobs in Duluth.
OK, so what you're saying is that people who choose to work Wall Street and Pharma jobs and choose to stay in NJ are somehow "trapped" by their own free choices??? lol
So when you sit in a chair, because you want to, you consider yourself "trapped" in that chair because you chose, of your own free will, to sit there??? "I'd sit on the other side of the room, but there's no chair there, so I'm trapped here in this chair!" LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby
Many people like their families and like to be near them.
Let me tell you something about life there, young fella. Some choices people have to make are harder than other ones. Sometimes this involves being away from family for a time; a short time, a not so long time, or a very long time. Still, this is a choice; nobody is forced to make one decision or another. In the Great Depression, many men CHOSE to leave home to find work, and would travel far, far away and be away from their families for months, even years, only keeping in touch through letter-writing. Some men chose not to go so far. It's a choice, even when it involves being with or away from family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby
There are those selfess families who understand their children have roots and friends here and it woud be disruptive to up root them and move.
Then those families' respective leaders are making the CHOICE that it is WORTH THE MONEY to pay the high taxes in NJ and stay here rather than uproot their children and move them away from their friends. Now, if a family were truly "getting killed by taxes", and couldn't afford to stay, that family would be forced to MOVE, but wouldn't be "trapped" in NJ.
Of course, there are plenty of families that do move in the best interests of the family as a whole, and realize that while childrens' friends and root are important, there may be more immediate needs for the family that are more important. I know families with children who have moved, more than once, and their children make new friends and put down new roots and they are fine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shorebaby
Yes all these things conspire to trap people.
Things don't "conspire", only people can conspire. Situations happen, circumstances are what they are, but people have choices in reacting to them. Anyone who is "trapped" into living in NJ is only "trapped" by choosing to be "trapped".
There was a funny commercial by the third-party candidate in the NJ gubernatorial race, it showed Corzine and Christie on an escalator, and they were "trapped", they were both crying for help, blaming each other for "trapping" themselves on the escalator. The third party guy then walked right up the escalator, showing that nobody is "trapped" on the escalator unless they CHOOSE to be, choosing to stand there, to not walk up or down the steps, and to blame and yell and scream like a victim.
I think that it's more than Corzinie and Christie who have that mentality in this state; but the fact remains, nobody is "trapped" in NJ unless the person is being held in jail.
OK, so what you're saying is that people who choose to work Wall Street and Pharma jobs and choose to stay in NJ are somehow "trapped" by their own free choices??? lol
So when you sit in a chair, because you want to, you consider yourself "trapped" in that chair because you chose, of your own free will, to sit there??? "I'd sit on the other side of the room, but there's no chair there, so I'm trapped here in this chair!" LOL
Let me tell you something about life there, young fella. Some choices people have to make are harder than other ones. Sometimes this involves being away from family for a time; a short time, a not so long time, or a very long time. Still, this is a choice; nobody is forced to make one decision or another. In the Great Depression, many men CHOSE to leave home to find work, and would travel far, far away and be away from their families for months, even years, only keeping in touch through letter-writing. Some men chose not to go so far. It's a choice, even when it involves being with or away from family.
Then those families' respective leaders are making the CHOICE that it is WORTH THE MONEY to pay the high taxes in NJ and stay here rather than uproot their children and move them away from their friends. Now, if a family were truly "getting killed by taxes", and couldn't afford to stay, that family would be forced to MOVE, but wouldn't be "trapped" in NJ.
Of course, there are plenty of families that do move in the best interests of the family as a whole, and realize that while childrens' friends and root are important, there may be more immediate needs for the family that are more important. I know families with children who have moved, more than once, and their children make new friends and put down new roots and they are fine.
Things don't "conspire", only people can conspire. Situations happen, circumstances are what they are, but people have choices in reacting to them. Anyone who is "trapped" into living in NJ is only "trapped" by choosing to be "trapped".
There was a funny commercial by the third-party candidate in the NJ gubernatorial race, it showed Corzine and Christie on an escalator, and they were "trapped", they were both crying for help, blaming each other for "trapping" themselves on the escalator. The third party guy then walked right up the escalator, showing that nobody is "trapped" on the escalator unless they CHOOSE to be, choosing to stand there, to not walk up or down the steps, and to blame and yell and scream like a victim.
I think that it's more than Corzinie and Christie who have that mentality in this state; but the fact remains, nobody is "trapped" in NJ unless the person is being held in jail.
The silliness of this response cannot be overstated. Suffice it to say I am older than you (your profile says you are 41). It would take a person who is not married and has no kids to come up with a response like that. Do some living and you will see things are not as black and white you think they are.
1. I'll try to break this down as simply as possible. Most people who travel (I myself am not included as I prefer rural areas) domestically and internationally to areas within the U.S. prefer visiting major cities. NJ's cities are all terribly rundown, crime-filled, depressed and decaying areas. No one wants to travel to Newark, Trenton, Camden, or Paterson for pleasure/leisure. Hence, NJ's culture is molested by two major out-of-state cities that tendto have a far too powerful stranglehold on the state.
2. Yes, cities can come to dominate out-of-state regions in many cases, but the difference is that most of the states you mentioned have their own vibrant cities which contribute to the state culture and pull in tourism dollars. Illinois has Chicago and Galena, Indiana has Indianapolis, Wisconsin has Milwaukee and Madison, Virginia has Richmond and Virginia Beach. West Virginia has Clarksburg. Rhode Island has Providence. New Hampshire has Portsmouth. South Carolina has Charleston. Kentucky has Lexington and Louisville. Etc.
3. Well, yes, the Northeast is the most expensive region of the country in a general sense, along with some areas of California and Hawaii, and contrary to popular opinion, not everyone loves it here and dances on rainbows.
4. Yes, schools are better in the Northeast than various other areas of the country. Not sure what you mean by "diversity". So we have Hispanic and Vietnamese immigrants and blacks in the inner cities. And? This is not interesting or exotic.
5. The crime and poverty rankings you refer to are BS, and I've heard this statistic trumpeted around before. The Northeast is supposedly so much better on crime and poverty? You have to be joking. ALL of NJ's major cities - Newark, Trenton, Camden, and Paterson are violent sinkholes in which people live in extreme poverty and cycles of drug psychosis. How many years now has Camden been voted the most dangerous city in all 50 states? Go to Irvington and tell me about the Northeast's great crime rankings. Go to the Bronx or Jamaica, Queens. Go to certain areas of east Philadelphia. Go to Baltimore, one of the most dangerous cities in the U.S. Go to Waterbury or Hartford. All of Connecticut's cities are only a step above NJ's and are among the poorest in the country. I've always felt much safer in the South than anywhere in NJ/NY.
1. And the last time that I checked, NJ ranked top 10 in the United States for crime. Noone wants to travel to those places because there is a lack of entertainment, not because of the crime. What would a tourist do in Newark? Not much. So, the fact that NJ's culture is molested is suppose to make me feel bad? I love that about the state.
2. Something that you are failing to realize is geography. NJ or no other state can determine their shape and boundaries.
3. Any person that doesn't love where they live should look into moving.
4. Italian and Jewish among many others.
5. Can you prove me wrong? You keep mentioning the bad cities of the state, but for every one bad city like JC, we have 20 towns with 40,000 people that offset it. EVERY state has a bad area. The big picture of the state as a whole is matters.
And the south is a whole different topic. I have lived all over the south. Let me tell you about my experience.
They don't have any true cities. They are experiencing growth, but can't control the growth. Every city is sprawled to no end and require a car. There is not one city in the south that gives you access to another one. The four main cities are Houston, Dallas, Miami and Atlanta. All four are seperated from each other by hours. Whereas, in NJ we have bosh-wash.
The culture there is non existent. And people from the north will not be accepted there because they don't like outsiders from anywhere. Everywhere outside of the four major cities mentioned is filled with a slow rural paced lifestyle with a twist of hick culture. Yeah, people get a big house for cheap, but what are people going to do in that big house. Stare at each other? Because there is nothing to do on the level in those cities when compared to NJ for entertainment.
Overall, the best state for school systems out of every state in the south was 22nd, which was NC. Therefore, if I moved to the south my child would have to go to private school, which would be very expensive. The majority of the cities there would make me pass out after five minutes of being there because of the humidity. If you go to Florida you have to worry about a gator attacking you while jogging in parks or better yet just flat out passing out because of the heat. Thanks, I will pass on anything in the south.
The silliness of this response cannot be overstated. Suffice it to say I am older than you (your profile says you are 41). It would take a person who is not married and has no kids to come up with a response like that. Do some living and you will see things are not as black and white you think they are.
I never said things are black and white. You're the one who insists they are black and white by insisting that there are people with no choice, who are "trapped".
Difficult choices and difficult decisions that are made and difficult processes are different from a complete lack of choice, or being "trapped". You're trying to insist that because a family might find difficulty in making a move the family is "trapped". That is wrong. They are choosing the path that is best for them and basing that choice on the factors involved and how much weight or priority they put on each factor. Those priorities are by their own choice, as well. If they choose to put the children's friends and roots above all other things, they make that the top priority by choice, and they go on to make choices on where to live based on that. But it is their own choice, ultimately.
You have yet to give an example of anyone being "trapped" and instead you keep going back to hollow ad homs like telling me to "do some living".
I think it's pretty obvious that your claims that people are "trapped" have no basis. Other posters have commented on that kind of victim mentality and the blame-game it starts by a person who chooses not to improve his family's situation. Personally, I think it's just a front put on by people who deep down KNOW they prefer living in NJ and that it IS worth the price they pay to live here, but because they've complained they want to save face by not admitting that it's their choice, so they pawn it off as being "trapped." Either way, it's not fooling anyone and it's no less disingenuous and wrong.
I never said things are black and white. You're the one who insists they are black and white by insisting that there are people with no choice, who are "trapped".
Difficult choices and difficult decisions that are made and difficult processes are different from a complete lack of choice, or being "trapped". You're trying to insist that because a family might find difficulty in making a move the family is "trapped". That is wrong. They are choosing the path that is best for them and basing that choice on the factors involved and how much weight or priority they put on each factor. Those priorities are by their own choice, as well. If they choose to put the children's friends and roots above all other things, they make that the top priority by choice, and they go on to make choices on where to live based on that. But it is their own choice, ultimately.
You have yet to give an example of anyone being "trapped" and instead you keep going back to hollow ad homs like telling me to "do some living".
I think it's pretty obvious that your claims that people are "trapped" have no basis. Other posters have commented on that kind of victim mentality and the blame-game it starts by a person who chooses not to improve his family's situation. Personally, I think it's just a front put on by people who deep down KNOW they prefer living in NJ and that it IS worth the price they pay to live here, but because they've complained they want to save face by not admitting that it's their choice, so they pawn it off as being "trapped." Either way, it's not fooling anyone and it's no less disingenuous and wrong.
It is not victimhood, it is recognizing reality. I am sure many people would love to move to Hawaii but can't afford it. Those people are not victims they recognize reality. See, shades of gray.
I gave you multiple examples of being "trapped" you refuse to see them as issues that limit folks ability to leave NJ. Again I pointed out to you that many people leave NJ when they can (after they retire).
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