Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Steve-O's point is valid though, too, as the article points out: "As metropolitan Phoenix continues to expand, it is becoming more and more common to see snowfall in residential areas located in the higher elevations of the north valley.
However, the article goes on to state what I think Mortimer is saying and I would agree with: "However, in most of the city, an event that produces measurable snow is quite rare."
Some other key excerpts:
-"The greatest amount of snow ever recorded at the official reporting station in Phoenix was 1.0 inch on January 20 1933, and on January 21 and 22 1937."
-"The most recent snow of significance, in areas below 2000 feet, was on December 6 1998. Snow fell over roughly the northwest half of the valley...where some accumulation was reported. Sky Harbor Airport recorded 0.22 inches of precipitation that day...but only a trace of snow."
The summary is essentially this:
While everyone familiar with the southwest can attest that altitude is the primary indicator in an area's ability to have significant (or non significant) snowfalls [eg: if every town in the SW were at 800 feet, they would all have very hot annual climates], and thus the parts of metro Phoenix surrounding it that are approaching 2000-3000 feet can get snowfall (generally still of very little significance relatively to the rest of the US lower 48), the actual heart of Phoenix metro which is lower than 2000 feet almost never sees snow, and if it does, it is a very, very trace-like amount.
This is why Tucson and Las Vegas, NV...somewhat similar climates to Phoenix...can and do usually see a few more inches of snowfall annually (both average roughly 2.5 inches annually which is a laughably small amount compared to most of the US lower 48)...they are both at roughly 2500 feet in altitude, and thus are "higher" than Phoenix.
El Paso, TX, another similar climate, sits at 3700 feet and gets a bit more snow, and Albuquerque, NM, another similar climate, sits at 5000 feet, and averages 10 inches per year. EG: The higher you get, the more snow chances you'll have. Still, except for the very high altitudes in the Southwest (eg: above 5500 or 6000 feet), snowfall is still very insignificant in the Southwest as compared to much of the remainder of the lower 48 US.
I would say that every one has elements of correctness here, but as far as "real" snowfall as would be defined in the Midwest, the Plains, the East Coast, the NE, much of the higher portion of the Southeast, etc., yes, Phoenix metro barely every catches a wisp.
As a follow up to my previous post regarding Phoenix's very rare snowfalls that have happened over the past century-plus, here is a great article from the Tucson newspaper about Tucson's "significant" (significant for Tucson, that is) snowfall in January 07:
The article also provides some good factual snowfall info of the recent decade or so in Tucson. As compared to the above post I had on Phoenix, one can clearly see that while Tucson's snowfalls are generally laughable if they ever do occur, they certainly are a little more frequent than Phoenix's, which is due to the altitude difference between the two cities.
Note some key excerpts from this article:
-"Flurries in Tucson are rare enough. The white stuff sticking to the ground is as infrequent as, well, snow in the desert."
-"The last time Tucson had measurable snowfall (NOTE: Before this article's snowfall of reference, which occurred in January 2007) was Jan. 30, 2002, with six-tenths of an inch recorded at Tucson International Airport, said Pamela Elslager, a meteorologist with the National Weather Service in Tucson."
-The article was reporting that up to two (2) inches of snowfall had fallen in the Tucson area on January 21, 2007.
-"The other nine of the last 10 snowstorms in town didn't dump enough to be measured, Elslager said.
They were:
Dec. 16, 2001
Feb. 8, 2001
Jan. 16, 2001
April 4, 1999
Dec. 10, 1998
Dec. 6, 1998
April 1, 1998
March 30, 1998
April 4, 1997"
-"● As of late Sunday, school officials were still weighing what to do about classes today. Parents were advised to check their district's or school's Web site, and to listen to early-morning news reports to determine whether schools were open."
NOTE: You know snow is a non-issue in an area when it receives "up to" 2 inches of snowfall and schools are contemplating closing. I am currently living in Milwaukee, and I think the general public would riot if a school closed with less than 4 or 5 inches of snowfall!...if not usually far more!
So again, I think everyone is pretty much "correct" in this debate, however, I really have to say I agree with Mortimer that snow is pretty much as big of a non-factor in Tucson or Phoenix as you could have with a weather event in any city.
PHX and Tucson both get snow from time to time, especially Tucson. Tucson got hit a few times last year, PHX had flurries and some pretty heavy snow in the outlying 'burbs.
So, basically, what Ive said all along (^) is accurate.
So, basically, what Ive said all along (^) is accurate.
Well, I wouldn't say it is necessarily incorrect, although I think saying "Tucson got hit" could possibly be misconstrued by people. Last year in Albuquerque when one snowstorm dropped 16 inches of snowfall, I would say that was an area getting "hit." To see a one or 1.5 inch dusting that melts in a few hours most wouldn't consider that getting "hit".
But yes, Steve-O, I think your point is well taken that it is indeed possible to witness a few flakes of snow in the Sonoran Desert, as rare and insignificant as it is.
Well, I wouldn't say it is necessarily incorrect, although I think saying "Tucson got hit" could possibly be misconstrued by people. Last year in Albuquerque when one snowstorm dropped 16 inches of snowfall, I would say that was an area getting "hit." To see a one or 1.5 inch dusting that melts in a few hours most wouldn't consider that getting "hit".
But yes, Steve-O, I think your point is well taken that it is indeed possible to witness a few flakes of snow in the Sonoran Desert, as rare and insignificant as it is.
"Hit" meant "hit" with snow, which they did a few times. This is definitely not just flurries:
http://www.bretttherealtor.com/images/snow_1-22-07_in_tucson____3_044__medium_.jpg (broken link)
Looks like I'll have just enough snow to remind me that winter is a possibility after I retire to New Mexico.
FWIW - the Northeast was effectivly snarled by 6" of snow in 6 hours yesterday. It took the bus I was on 4 hours to go 44 miles on an interstate highway. I expect to see the ground sometime in March if we have a mild spring.
It took the bus I was on 4 hours to go 44 miles on an interstate highway
Sounds like Chicago on a average day. Get yourself a Mitsubishi Lancer Evo IX, end all your winter driving troubles.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Phoenix's snowfall
