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After living in Tennessee for over two years, and having been in New Mexico for 17+ years before that, I can safely say that there's no equating one with the other. Geographically, yes, both are located in the southern portion of the country, but that's really the extent of New Mexico's affiliation with anything "southern." Heck, for starters, nobody around here knows what I'm talking about when I say I want green chile! We ordered some from Hatch and roasted them last week - the smell brought back many fond memories.
I'm not kidding. You have high baptist populations in the eastern plains counties, it's very conservative, has a lot in common with Texas and Oklahoma.
New Mexico is not very conservative. The east, south and a lot of the more "remote" or mountainous areas are conservative, but the North central and North Western areas can be very liberal. Some areas are even San Francisco liberal. I don't know where you got the idea that it is a "very conservative state". Of the 4 corners states it is easily the most liberal.
I can assure you that there isn't anything very liberal about the eastern and southeastern parts of the state. MimzyMusic is right. That being said, if you don't stir up a ruckus, you'll probably not be hassled by anyone.
I shouldn't have said first. I meant after the US annexed the area from Mexico. After that a great deal of Southerners (and their slaves) moved westward. The movement of Southerners westward was one of the contributing factors to the Civil War, since Northerners wanted to contain slavery to that area. When the CSA was formed they claimed western territory.
You may be right -- but where did the descendants of those slaves go? I don't see them around here.
I was born in Albuquerque and raised in southeastern NM. With the exception of 7 years I have lived here all my live. I have never been accused of being "southern".
I just have to get my two-cents worth in on this one. My dear friend Cathy who posted earlier (a fellow native Texan who first told me about this thread) will disagree on some of the following, but we are good friends and have just agreed to disagree. Right Cathy? LOL
First of all, absolutely no to the original question. Other than a small slice of eastern New Mexico which was settled by Texans and contains certain elements of the South due to the influence of westward moving Southerners (which were the stock that overwhelmingly settled Texas), there is nothing historically nor culturally "Southern" about New Mexico at all. Some of the aforementioned elements being the influence of the Southern Baptist Church and Southern American English spoken along that bit of the New Mexico border which, in fact, has been called "Little Texas."
New Mexico is, like Arizona, a true Southwestern state in every regard. That is to say, it is the "southern West" as opposed to the "western South" as is Texas. Now, while my intent here is not to, necessarily, argue Texas' regional affiliation, the topic has considerable bearing as a preface.
So to start, someone earlier said something about the South stopping near Palestine, Texas. While I acknowledge the likely reasons for saying so, there seems to be a misconception of history/culture which solely defines the South today in terms of a Deep South "moonlight and magnolias Gone With The Wind" paradigm. But all that, like the image of Texas being a wasteland of desert and cactus, is largely of Hollywood creation.
Texas was overwhelmingly settled by anglo and blacks from the South, both before and after the War Between the States. Even leaving aside the Confederate experience (considerable in itself), it was this phenomenon which mostly shaped the cultural of the state. Migration patterns (legal and illegal) have altered some of this over the years, but Texas is and remains essentially a Southern state.
NOT -- I hasten to add -- a TYPICAL Southern state, just one -- all in all -- much more tied to the South than to the West. Even the "western" components of Texas have strong Southern roots. For instance, the original Texas cowboy was most likely to have been an ex-Confederate soldier whose tradition traced to the "drover" of the Old South. The Southern Baptist church is dominant in even West Texas, and the accent is Southern American English. Too, for all it is enshrined in legend and pride, Texas was mostly a state dominated by the tenant farming cotton culture, not the huge ranching operations. And perhaps most importantly, in sociological surveys, Texans are far more likely to identify with the South as to where they consider themselves to live and what they consider themselves than they are the West. Those from New Mexico are far more likely to go the opposite direction.
There are scores of other facts which back up this opinion, but the main point being, that the best way to show New Mexico is in no way, shape, or form, a Southern state, is to draw distinctions with Texas. Where the South and its sphere of influence truly ends.
It can become extremely confusing, especially when one considers that Texas and New Mexico both can be fairly called "Southwestern." But that doesn't necessarily mean they are in the same cultural region.
Originally, the term "Southwest" meant the frontier states of the South, and consisted of Alabama, Missisippi, and Tennesee. Then went on to Louisiana and Arkansas. Finally, Texas.
Sometime after the War Between the States, it sort of solidified into being defined as Texas and, to a lesser extent, Arkansas, and to some degree, Oklahoma. The main point being that at no time was the term used to denote a wholely seperate region, but rather, a sort of "twin" to the "southeast, which together made up The South.
As time went on though, and westward migration continued, for geographical reasons, New Mexico and Arizona began to be called the Southwest and "the relationship to the South became increasingly unclear..." (this from the Encyclopedia of Southern Culture).
This is sort of where it stands today. That is, Texas, Arizona and New Mexico all being considered "Southwestern". Yet, too often no historical and cultural distinction between the former and the latter two are made nor even considered when applying the label.
Texas is southwest as in "western South". A place where Southern history, religion, culture, folkways, traditions, etc are flavored with Western dress, wide-open spaces, and free-spirited individuality (for the most part, that is. East Texas is where the Deep South of the southeast begins).
On the other hand, New Mexico and Arizona are the true hispanic/indian influenced Southwest of the West, with nothing classically Southern about them.
I just have to get my two-cents worth in on this one. My dear friend Cathy who posted earlier (a fellow native Texan who first told me about this thread) will disagree on some of the following, but we are good friends and have just agreed to disagree. Right Cathy? LOL
First of all, absolutely no to the original question. Other than a small slice of eastern New Mexico which was settled by Texans and contains certain elements of the South due to the influence of westward moving Southerners (which were the stock that overwhelmingly settled Texas), there is nothing historically nor culturally "Southern" about New Mexico at all. Some of the aforementioned elements being the influence of the Southern Baptist Church and Southern American English spoken along that bit of the New Mexico border which, in fact, has been called "Little Texas."
New Mexico is, like Arizona, a true Southwestern state in every regard. That is to say, it is the "southern West" as opposed to the "western South" as is Texas. Now, while my intent here is not to, necessarily, argue Texas' regional affiliation, the topic has considerable bearing as a preface.
So to start, someone earlier said something about the South stopping near Palestine, Texas. While I acknowledge the likely reasons for saying so, there seems to be a misconception of history/culture which solely defines the South today in terms of a Deep South "moonlight and magnolias Gone With The Wind" paradigm. But all that, like the image of Texas being a wasteland of desert and cactus, is largely of Hollywood creation.
Texas was overwhelmingly settled by anglo and blacks from the South, both before and after the War Between the States. Even leaving aside the Confederate experience (considerable in itself), it was this phenomenon which mostly shaped the cultural of the state. Migration patterns (legal and illegal) have altered some of this over the years, but Texas is and remains essentially a Southern state.
NOT -- I hasten to add -- a TYPICAL Southern state, just one -- all in all -- much more tied to the South than to the West. Even the "western" components of Texas have strong Southern roots. For instance, the original Texas cowboy was most likely to have been an ex-Confederate soldier whose tradition traced to the "drover" of the Old South. The Southern Baptist church is dominant in even West Texas, and the accent is Southern American English. Too, for all it is enshrined in legend and pride, Texas was mostly a state dominated by the tenant farming cotton culture, not the huge ranching operations. And perhaps most importantly, in sociological surveys, Texans are far more likely to identify with the South as to where they consider themselves to live and what they consider themselves than they are the West. Those from New Mexico are far more likely to go the opposite direction.
There are scores of other facts which back up this opinion, but the main point being, that the best way to show New Mexico is in no way, shape, or form, a Southern state, is to draw distinctions with Texas. Where the South and its sphere of influence truly ends.
It can become extremely confusing, especially when one considers that Texas and New Mexico both can be fairly called "Southwestern." But that doesn't necessarily mean they are in the same cultural region.
Originally, the term "Southwest" meant the frontier states of the South, and consisted of Alabama, Missisippi, and Tennesee. Then went on to Louisiana and Arkansas. Finally, Texas.
Sometime after the War Between the States, it sort of solidified into being defined as Texas and, to a lesser extent, Arkansas, and to some degree, Oklahoma. The main point being that at no time was the term used to denote a wholely seperate region, but rather, a sort of "twin" to the "southeast, which together made up The South.
As time went on though, and westward migration continued, for geographical reasons, New Mexico and Arizona began to be called the Southwest and "the relationship to the South became increasingly unclear..." (this from the Encyclopedia of Southern Culture).
This is sort of where it stands today. That is, Texas, Arizona and New Mexico all being considered "Southwestern". Yet, too often no historical and cultural distinction between the former and the latter two are made nor even considered when applying the label.
Texas is southwest as in "western South". A place where Southern history, religion, culture, folkways, traditions, etc are flavored with Western dress, wide-open spaces, and free-spirited individuality (for the most part, that is. East Texas is where the Deep South of the southeast begins).
On the other hand, New Mexico and Arizona are the true hispanic/indian influenced Southwest of the West, with nothing classically Southern about them.
Ok..that is my soapbox for the day! LOL
As a native of the TX Panhandle, I have to respectfully disagree with some of your generalizations regarding Texas' settlement. What you say about Southerners settling TX is generally true, particularly of the more heavily settled Central part. However, the Panhandle had no permanent settlements until 1877 - the first settlers were from San Miguel Cty, NM. The ranches were populated as much by Kansans, Coloradoans and New Mexicans as by Southerners. Real settlement in the Panhandle came between 1900 and 1920 with the wheat and oil booms. Settlers came from the mid-west farm belt mostly.
Natives of the TX Panhandle tend to think themselves sui generis, considering themselves Texans or anything else when convenient. In "Plutonium Circus"- a documentary about Amarillo- a young woman was asked why she went to Baylor U (Waco, TX). Her reply, "To get as far away from Amarillo as I could." (you gotta come from the area to truly appreciate her answer)
No way. New Mexico is not a Southern state- period.
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Where did they go?
I don't see them around here.
