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maybe PHX has a mild case of being Southwestern, its just really hard to see under all the fakeness that makes up the suburban city of PHX, that place dont have much of an identity or character anymore. Now its just anyplace USA plopped down in a desert scene.
Kinda like suburban Albuquerque? Rio Rancho? New parts of Cruces?
Maybe I'm the only one who sees it this way but to me, the degree a place still has a Southwestern feel correlates with the proportion of the population that has multi-generational roots going back to the indigenous Spanish/Indian cultures that preceded the American period. This is why New Mexico seems to me more Southwestern than most parts of Arizona or Texas. A higher proportion of Arizona residents, particularly in places like Phoenix, are American-period arrivals or their descendents.
This is the historical and cultural background of this area.
But it's the product of the interaction of those influences that makes up Southwestern culture. Obviously there are many places with Indian tribes that were part of the Louisiana purchase, Missouri for example, that would not be considered Southwestern. While Spain may have nominally owned the territory there, it did not have the same degree and length of influence on the local culture that it had on New Mexico.
(Thank you for the mild case scenario. Wow I thought saguaro meant Southwest desert cactus). C#*p I was wrong again. I get tired of this. South of Albuquerque and West of Silver City. Can you describe the fakeness that I fail to see? Southwest!!! Huh!
"that place dont have much of an identity" (English language skills!!) Yea Haa!! Can't get a lot farther South or West of Albuquerque unless you think about Yuma or San Diego.
I've been to Albuquerque (15 times in the past 20 years), Santa Fe and Taos at least 30 times between them. I really don't like Santa Fe and/or Taos, and well it has been at least 30 years since I've been there so I think things have changed some.
I love my part of the Southwest and it was 76 today. The weather is just absolutely gorgeous. Look at the map again!!!
now do I really need to describe the fakeness of PHX, just look outside your window or take a little drive, you'll see the fakenees, its all over, from the non native palm trees to the fake SW style houses to the fake looking grass in the yards, and all of the transplants. Yall (you and all the other transplants) invaded PHX and screwed the city, its tottally different than what it used to be, it has lost its character, its not that hard to understand.
I knew when I typed that little sentence that you would attack my english language skills, most do on city data when they read something they dont like, but oh well, I will talk however I want, EYE AINT TRYIN 2 B PROPER ON SUM INTERNET FORUM. I dont have to impress anyone but myself.
congrats on visiting ABQ,Santa Fe and Taos so many times, that must suck, I hate Santa Fe and I've never been to Taos and I dont ever wanna go but they are Southwestern as Southwestern can get, not like PHX who has a mild case of it. Im glad that you liked your 76 degree weather today, I like a city that actually has 4 seasons, not the same ol weather pattern over and over and I would really hate to be in PHX in the summer.
from your post you are very offended by not being considered Southwestern, and I dont really care how you feel, but maybe you being a Midwestern native you see SW in a different way.
Kinda like suburban Albuquerque? Rio Rancho? New parts of Cruces?
no, not kinda like ABQ,RR or Cruces, PHX is in a whole different league, you cant even compare the NM cities with PHX, the PHX area has double the population of the whole state of NM.
This is the historical and cultural background of this area.
When citing historic events, don't forget the Gadsden purchase (or Tratado de Mesilla -sometimes Venta de Mesilla- as it's known in Mexico), which added SW New Mexico and Southern Arizona to the USA after a rather huge surveyors error was discovered. Though the treaty was signed in Mexico City, the actual hand-over of the territory was done a few blocks from my house in La Mesilla.
To me, the unique Southwest culture is a product of Spanish, Mexican, Indian and Anglo cultures mixing or criss-crossing in this part of the country. New Mexico is the heart, but not the limits, of this serendipitous (but certainly not always pleasant) collision of cultures.
now do I really need to describe the fakeness of PHX, just look outside your window or take a little drive, you'll see the fakenees, its all over, from the non native palm trees to the fake SW style houses to the fake looking grass in the yards, and all of the transplants. Yall (you and all the other transplants) invaded PHX and screwed the city, its tottally different than what it used to be, it has lost its character, its not that hard to understand.
I knew when I typed that little sentence that you would attack my english language skills, most do on city data when they read something they dont like, but oh well, I will talk however I want, EYE AINT TRYIN 2 B PROPER ON SUM INTERNET FORUM. I dont have to impress anyone but myself.
congrats on visiting ABQ,Santa Fe and Taos so many times, that must suck, I hate Santa Fe and I've never been to Taos and I dont ever wanna go but they are Southwestern as Southwestern can get, not like PHX who has a mild case of it. Im glad that you liked your 76 degree weather today, I like a city that actually has 4 seasons, not the same ol weather pattern over and over and I would really hate to be in PHX in the summer.
from your post you are very offended by not being considered Southwestern, and I dont really care how you feel, but maybe you being a Midwestern native you see SW in a different way.
I certainly don't see it the same way you do, but I do feel your pain. Obviously we will never see it the same way which is okay with me. I wish you luck in your endeavors. I'm not sure what causes it, but the pain comes through loud and clear.
You do know where the Chisholm Trail is, don't you?
You do know what the Cherokee Strip is?
Oklahoma has the largest per capita number of horses in the country and has the 4th largest total number of horses.
Oklahoma is the current home of the Comanche, Kiowa, Pawnee, Kaw, Ponca, Wichita, and many Apache.....nations that owned the southwest for generations.
Oklahoma is home the the old Pawnee Bill touring show.....its only real competition was Buffalo Bill's.
Oklahoma is the home of some of the most legendary law men in the old west.....Bill Tilghman, Chris Madsen, Heck Thomas, and Frank Eaton aka Pistol Pete....the "mascot" for Oklahoma State, New Mexico State, and Wyoming Universities)
Oklahoma was home to some of the wests most legendary outlaws Bell Starr, Bill Doolin, Bill Dalton just to name a few
The old 101 Ranch in Pawnee was the prototype for cattle ranches.
"Famous" Cowboys like Tom Mix, and Bill Pickett came from Oklahoma.
Today Oklahoma hosts more than 100 rodeos a year, the "Calf Fry Festival" in Vinita depends on the ranch country around it for their main draw........
and lets not forget Will Rogers.................
Oklahoma isn't southwestern? give me a break..............
By that definition I guess you would consider the old Dodge City and the rest of the "Old West" as part of the Southwest, which I wouldn't. I agree with others that it's less about cowboys and Indians than it is about Spanish influences.
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