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Old 12-31-2010, 09:57 AM
DAS
 
2,532 posts, read 6,860,986 times
Reputation: 1116

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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3ALTAWK718 View Post
NYC has not been middle class friendly, ever.


What really is middle class in NYC though? I mean technically most gentrifiers are working professionals.
The first statement maybe your reality if you are under the age of 20. There was a time not too long ago when a middle class person could live quite nicely in NYC. They could go out with out having to seek out free activities, They could actually pay for some luxuries as well as easily take care of necessities.

The second statement you are specifically referring to gentrifiers, not people that have always resided in traditional working/middle class neighborhoods. So in this case, are you referring to trustfunders?
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Old 12-31-2010, 11:19 AM
 
138 posts, read 314,813 times
Reputation: 96
I see I hit a nerve with this one. I feel there is a misunderstanding.

So lets define "Gentrification" shall we.

Gentrification [jen-truh-fi-key-shuhn] -noun the renovation of run-down urban neighborhoods, displacing lower-income families and small badness.

I will admit I was torn about the term. Originally I found it wrong to displace the poor, than again this is a capitalist society. Fortunately for them we have socialist aspects (welfare, subsidies, section 8, NYCHA). I do not mind being taxed to assist the less fortunate but I do have a problem with allowing neighborhoods to decay and do nothing. There has to be progress, that is the only real difference between 70's NYC and today.

I obviously do not support the displacement of the middle class (or anyone), but are they really being displaced? I see more and more professional workers moving into NYC, along with immigrants, both poor and rich. The gap is definately growing but is it only because the middle class in NYC consist of higher income earners and there is less of a buffer area (lower middle class). Meanwhile poverty grows thanks to the social aspects of the city. Creating an obvious disparity.

Revitalization and gentrification are one in the same. I not only see coffee shops, I see all kinds of development. Benefiting everyone. I see green initiatives, slum redevelopment, an increase in retail options across the city. Even more low income and mixed income housing.

As for art, the factors that once drove the arts scene still exist in NYC. Diversity among people, incomes, and social issues. The art is still thriving.

See my point of view?
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Old 12-31-2010, 11:36 AM
DAS
 
2,532 posts, read 6,860,986 times
Reputation: 1116
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3ALTAWK718 View Post
Revitalization and gentrification are one in the same.


See my point of view?
Wrong
and
no

You can have revitalization along with, coffee shops, green initiatives, increased retail, without gentrification.

Most low income was provided first then "luxury" housing bypassing the housing for the middle incomes whether middle income is considered higher in NYC or not.
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Old 12-31-2010, 11:49 AM
 
34,097 posts, read 47,302,110 times
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There used to be a middle class...like back in 1982 when my parents bought a 3 bedroom house with garage and the biggest backyard on the block for $50,000. Today the same house is worth $450,000 and I don't think they would have been able to afford it today.
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Old 12-31-2010, 12:01 PM
 
979 posts, read 4,457,300 times
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Quote:
As for art, the factors that once drove the arts scene still exist in NYC. Diversity among people, incomes, and social issues. The art is still thriving.
Oh really? Let's see your links. Here are mine and believe me the list goes on.

http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...REE/311149985#

From Brooklyn to Berlin: New York Artists Escape to Germany - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

WKYC.com | Cleveland, OH | Cleveland: Some artists leaving New York City for local neighborhoods

Artists Flee NYC: Less Funding But the Same High Rents - WNYC

City fathers scramble to keep New York
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Old 12-31-2010, 12:09 PM
 
979 posts, read 4,457,300 times
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Quote:
Revitalization and gentrification are one in the same. I not only see coffee shops, I see all kinds of development. Benefiting everyone. I see green initiatives, slum redevelopment, an increase in retail options across the city. Even more low income and mixed income housing.
I have no argument with the City wanting to grow it's tax base but ask Adam Purple and the rest of the people who lost their neighborhood gardens in the lower east side what they think of revitalization and gentrification.

Last edited by modsquad81; 12-31-2010 at 12:24 PM..
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Old 12-31-2010, 12:13 PM
 
138 posts, read 314,813 times
Reputation: 96
Artist as a class might be on the decline, but what is art? You don't have to have the occuption of artist to create art. NYC is still central to the arts and will continue to create.

I still don't see how gentrification is destroying the city. If anything more neighborhoods are seeing more economic diversity, and in some cases cultural or racial.
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Old 12-31-2010, 12:24 PM
 
979 posts, read 4,457,300 times
Reputation: 519
Quote:
what is art?
You brought it up, you tell me.
Quote:
If anything more neighborhoods are seeing more economic diversity, and in some cases cultural or racial.
Starbucks on every corner? Is that your idea of economic diversity? Instead of mouthing PC platitudes give us a link that points to this utopia. Back them up because I think you are wrong.
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Old 12-31-2010, 12:27 PM
DAS
 
2,532 posts, read 6,860,986 times
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NYC will continue to sell art to the wealthy and not so wealthy this is true, but the artist with the occupation of artist will continue move on to other cities.

You are seeing more wealthy people in poor, and in working/middle class sections of the city. Leaving especially the working/middle class with less of both affordable and desirable housing.

As for cultural and racial diversity, we have had that for almost 400 years.
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Old 12-31-2010, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn, NY
110 posts, read 309,066 times
Reputation: 46
Default My thoughts on gentrification

To the OP:

You didn't really strike a nerve, you just proved that you don't understand how gentrification is destroying the city.

1. The original (Native) NYC middle class has been the life blood of NYC. We're the spokes that make the NYC wheels turn. When you displace the original middle class, you displace the element that has stabilized the authentic trait of NYC.

2. When the authentic element is displaced, that which has thrived off of that element (mom and pop shops) will also be replaced (with starbucks and other trendy stuff). This new trendy population is not a safe replacement for the original life blood of the city.

So lets define "Trendy" shall we

Trendy [tren' de] -adj, of or in accord with the latest fad or fashion.

What happens when the new "Trendy" population replaces the original middle class, and then the NYC fad ends? What happens when the next fad becomes Boston, Miami or some other city? What happens to NYC?

3. Many of the gentrifyers have already left because their NYC thrill is gone. They can't deal with the constant hustle and bustle of the city.

Revitalizing the city is great, just don't run the original working class out in the process. Keep the life blood of the city while revitalizing.

Why is NYC on the brink of bankrupcy after all of this great gentrification and condo building?

16 US Cities Facing Bankruptcy If They Don't Make Deep Cuts In 2011
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