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I'm reading all these posts.......Fordham Rd never moved same as 183rd St never moved......as long as I can remember it was always called the Fordham section of the Bronx......The North Bronx........OK the area of 183rd St is not the most desirable, and neither is Fordham Rd. but that still doesn't change anything......its still the North Bronx.
i'm not saying it is an exact science, but at the same time the thread is called "what sections are considered the south bronx?" so i'm assuming a concise answer was required.
that being said, if the bronx was to undergo some sort of vast gentrification, would you stil apply the same boundaries, or would it switch since the neighborhoods arent a piece of **** anymore? now it makes perfect sense to not label the boundaries of a neighborhood on an economic standpoint.
north boundary = cross bronx expwy
south boundary = harlem river
east boundary = westchester av
west boundary = i said harlem river before, but i think i'll even change it to jerome ave, because highbridge and university heights are distinct in their own way from the south bronx (step streets, jamaican enclave).
This is my understanding.
I went to school in the S Bx - Tinton Ave. (Between Hunts Point and 3rd Ave.)
Lived North Bronx - 197th Grand Concourse
Lived East Bronx - White Plains/Bruckner
Lived West Bronx - W Burnside off the Deegan
The neighborhoods in the South Bronx had the most burned down buildings.
This is a ridiculous, yet amusing thread. I've heard of "bad" areas co-opting the name of a nicer surrounding area, but not the reverse. This is just a matter of trying to turn more of the borough into a metaphor for the total crime and urban decay which were present to some degree throughout the city in an earlier era. The literal South Bronx was the worst hit.
It's kind of like renaming the Upper East/West Side East and West Harlem. It just ain't so.
"North" South Bronx?
This is ridiculous....out of curiosity, how many people that have posted on thread are native New Yorkers?
Im a native New Yorker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeventhFloor
Please explain to me how a geographical term for a neighborhood is used to define the boundaries of poverty.
That's the issue here. The South Bronx isn't a geographic term. The reason the term was first coined was to describe the poverty filled, crime infested, minority occupied area of Mott Haven. It so happened that Mott Haven was located in the southern portion of the borough, hence the term South Bronx. As time passed, the areas sourrounding Mott Haven also went downhill. These included Melrose, Morrisiana and Highbridge. By the 80's the urban decay reached the areas of Morris Heights, Tremont, Uni Heights. Since the term South Bronx was originally used to designate poverty, it's only natural that the poverty stricken areas would also recieve that label. Due to the majority of the areas being in the southern portion, the name stuck.
Look at it this way. If the ghetto would have originated in Woodlawn the term "North Bronx" would haven been coined. If the area sorrounding it also went downhill, they too would pick up the name. So basically the only reason the term "South" was used was because thats where the poverty started.
Another analogy. Virginia is considered a southern state. Looking at a map, Virginia is located in the middle of the US. Historical significance aside, what makes Virginia a southern state? It's culture and the way of living. Just like when looking at a map, Uni Heights is located in the middle of the Bronx. What makes it the S. Bronx? The poverty, crime, minority problems that's shared by all the S. Bronx.
Another point.
When you think of the South Bronx, was the first thing that comes to mind? I know it has nothing to do with location. You, like everyone else associate the name with "slum" or "ghetto". The problems in that area were brought to the attention to everyone. As a result the area recieved help. So areas such as Morris Heights, Uni Heights and Fordham were left to suffer. Alot of people not familiar with the Bronx assume that the South Bronx is the only area in need of aid. So those areas since they're not in the South are assumed to be prospering...when in fact they're worst off nowadays. Why else do you think that the areas north of Fordham are so s**tty today? Because of this negligance.
Focus elsewhere people. The problem is not the S. Bronx anymore...its The Bronx in general.
I may seem like I want this negative term to be put on my neighborhood. I dont. But if the term "South Bronx" would help bring attention to my area, resulting in help, then so be it.
From the map I actually now agree with Hustla that Fordham divides the Bronx in half. Therefore I disagree with the "Fordham is in the north" stuff. If anything it's in the middle, with the areas of Uni Heights and Morris Heights more south than north.
Last edited by DoubleXAs; 09-12-2007 at 01:03 AM..
The South Bronx is a region of the New York Cityborough of The Bronx. It strictly refers to the southwestern portion of the borough, and should not be confused with the southern Bronx. It is also the home of Yankee Stadium. The "South Bronx" is not a completely neutral term, as it is one commonly associated with urban decay of the 1970s. The terms "Downtown Bronx" and "SoBro" have recently been coined in hopes of replacing this somewhat outdated term for the region, with the latter term "SoBro" meant to conjure Manhattan's more affluent SoHo neighorhood. It is popular for being the birth place of hip hop music and culture.
While the Bronx was considered the "Jewish Borough," which at its peak in 1930 was about 50% Jewish. The term was first coined in the 1940s by a group of social workers who identified the Bronx's first pocket of poverty, in the Mott Haven section, the southernmost section of the Bronx. Originally denoting only Mott Haven and Melrose, the South Bronx extended up to the Cross Bronx Expressway by the 1970s, encompassing Hunts Point, Morrisania, and Highbridge. It was around this time that the Bronx was experiencing some of its worst times ever due to white flight, landlord abandonment and government indifference. Some landlords were motivated to burn their buildings for insurance claims.[citation needed] There was also heroin trafficking. The resultant chaos as related by the media brought the term "South Bronx" into common parlance nationwide.
The South Bronx stretches perhaps further today than it did in the turbulent 1970s; today the neighborhoods of Tremont and University Heights are often considered part of the South Bronx. Some even argue that the Soundview section is part of the South Bronx, or even its eastern neighbor, Castle Hill. The northern limit of the South Bronx is commonly thought to be at Fordham Road. Wherever the South Bronx exactly is, it was thought of as an icon of urban decay, as shown in 1981's Paul Newman film Fort Apache, The Bronx.
Since the late 1980s the South Bronx has rebounded in many of its neighborhoods with reconstructed, refurbished and brand new residential buildings, including both low and high income single family homes. The South Bronx today has a much lower crime rate when compared to the 1970s through the early 1990s. Its population is increasing.[1][2]
Any neighborhood that is not considered the South Bronx is automatically the "North Bronx," even if it lies within the southern portion of the borough, as does Throgs Neck in the Bronx's extreme southeast. South Bronx residents often dislike the term because it obscures the actual neighborhoods in the area. However, it should not be ignored that the heavy reliance on using the region of the South Bronx as a geographic marker over the years has caused the names of its neighborhoods to decline in usage, to the point of residents of Mott Haven and Morris Heights not even knowing the actual name of their neighborhood. Others point out that there is great socio-economic diversity within the neighborhoods that are lumped together under the "South Bronx" heading.
The South Bronx in many ways is more a state of mind than an actual location. Also, the more notable dichotomy in the Bronx is that of the West Bronx vs. the East Bronx; the West Bronx is hillier, less heavily populated, and closer to Manhattan, while the East Bronx is flatter, more residential, and closer to the Long Island Sound. The "North Bronx" designation therefore groups together neighborhoods on opposite ends of the Bronx which have little in common, such as Kingsbridge and Pelham Bay.
It is important to note that the expanded use of the term South Bronx and the thirty years since the coining of the term have brought great changes to the area that it refers to. The South Bronx of today is very different from that of the years gone by; now, it is one of the more calm parts of the Bronx due to the population drop, with a lower crime rate than areas north of the Cross-Bronx Expressway.
I may seem like I want this negative term to be put on my neighborhood. I dont. But if the term "South Bronx" would help bring attention to my area, resulting in help, then so be it.
I bet you could find other, more constructive ways of using your time to help your neighborhood, if that is what you are trying to do here.
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My Take..
