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I too agree that none of these single actions, a new park, some new homes, some new businesses, a rehabbed station, and a few new people, are going to make Hunts Point the Paris of NYC. Of course...and no reasonable person would purport that to be the case, or that they are solving the ills that plague the community.
However, they are all steps in the right direction, and are making improvements in the quality of life of the residents. It is not meant to be a single solution, but progress is being made...so why do these improvements get criticized and made to be "pointless" or a " waste of time?" You can not turn around a community in a day, a week or a year, and change, positive changes, are always slow. I state nothing more than the changes that are being made to improve the quality of life, and that they are steps in a process, while Hustla just calls them "crap" and "pointless."
lol....great pictures would not be the obvious, great pictures would be the green parks, the smiling faces, and the new homes that are doing quite well in Hunts Point...
I too agree that none of these single actions, a new park, some new homes, some new businesses, a rehabbed station, and a few new people, are going to make Hunts Point the Paris of NYC. Of course...and no reasonable person would purport that to be the case, or that they are solving the ills that plague the community.
However, they are all steps in the right direction, and are making improvements in the quality of life of the residents. It is not meant to be a single solution, but progress is being made...so why do these improvements get criticized and made to be "pointless" or a " waste of time?" You can not turn around a community in a day, a week or a year, and change, positive changes, are always slow. I state nothing more than the changes that are being made to improve the quality of life, and that they are steps in a process, while Hustla just calls them "crap" and "pointless."
After looking through this thread, me along with the other forumers were a little too agressive disagreeing with you. A lot of un necessary comments.
However I look at it like this.
A new park is built Hunts Point. It may be beneficial to the community but it is insignificant in my eyes.
You see the problem with low income communities like Hunts Point is, they never really change. The people never change. The only way to change it would be to litterally displace most of the low income individuals. The community of Hunts Point is just that, it is the people. Not the run down buildings, not the vacant lots, the people. So in order to change the community, you would have to change the people.
Personally I am against gentrification. I don't feel it's right, I have seen the struggle in our communities first hand. These people should not be displaced. the ghetto might be hard, but it is a place to live. Displacement is like starting from the bottom. Look at all the young Black/Latin kids from Harlem moving to the South Bronx getting in trouble to fit in. Thankfully gentrification is not a threat to Hunts Point, and won't be according to housing trends and demographics.
But lets run through this development.
A new park is finished, okay. Yes, the community was in need of a playground. However, what happends now? The community destroys it (graffiti, vandalizing), and parents are afraid to take their kids there even in the day (bums sleeping in the park, street kids cutting school and acting rowdy). On top of that the children who do play in that park, catch asthma attacks thanks to the intense level of industrial air pollution and vehicle exhust.
So it's more of the same in the community.
I do not feel Hunts Point is a nice community to live. I am harsh with my words, I call it a ****hole, but that is becuase it is not a nice place to live. At all. Not even to save money. Why? It drags you down. No one is immune.
These ghettos are doomed to be terrible places to try and survive, but that's life. The strong (who will need help like postive roll models and even a little luck) who unfortunately have to live through it will make it out. There will be those who don't make it, but it could be worse, they could be homeless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillietta
Nothing to do with the discussion, but GREAT pictures Hustla.
Hustla...although I sense the dark side of the force is strong within you...I also sense there is hope for you. I am glad that you are being more reasonable. And I too agree that a neighborhood is not the buildings, or parks, it is the people. And unless the people change, then all the parks in the world are not going to matter in the long run. Agreed. However, what I say is, these changes that are occuring, the new parks, new homes, new business, are showing the members of the community that they matter, the city cares, and it was the community itself that stood up and demanded these changes....and they got them. That speaks volume, it taught the community a valuable lesson in politics, economics, the power of one and the strength of many....and yes they can change their community and themselves for the better.
If you go by Barretto Park you will see that it is in fact not covered by graffitti, not filled with bums, or drug dealers, day or night. I too thought it would sink into disrepair but that has not happened, and I think it is inidicative of a change in the mindset and attitudes of some, but not all. As I said, change comes slowly, but I see it occuring.
I also agree that it is not a nice place to live...and as early as 7 years ago, I would have agreed with you and said it was, in fact, a ****hole. However, I do sense the change, and I see the improvements that are being made from within the community, as well as the overwhelmingly positive response from the city, and developers and private investors. It is far better than it was, improvements have been and continue to be made, nonetheless, it is certianly not a nice place to live. Agreed.
i guess if you say it is the people, then the question really becomes who are the people...the residents of these areas.
If they are all gangstas, drug dealers, etc then the area will probably not change. But if there are working people (even working poor) who are not interested in the drug trade, hanging out at night in the parks, etc. I think there is a chance for improvement.
Communities sometimes have to work very hard (in league with the NYPD and community orgs) to start to transform a very bad situation into a better one, little by little.
In buildings where crack dealers have taken over and the residents fear for their lives if they contact the police, well, that is a very serious situation. But if enough of the regular residents of an area are law abiding (families, working poor, lower middle class) then their strongest concerns will be safety for themselves and their kids. If they have the ways and means to unite with the community, attend community board meetings, and fight together for change, it can make a difference. That is where indifference or non-involvement can stymie the process--but for those truly concerned about their kids, well, the squeaky wheel gets the oil--but you may have to squeak a bit (or a lot) longer and louder., and you won't always win (i.e. new Yankee stadium despite community protest, albeit with concessions/consolation prizes depending on how you view it). For awhile it may be two steps forward, one step back (or whatever ratio you prefer).
So yes, it is the people...all the people, not just the criminals.
Hustla...although I sense the dark side of the force is strong within you...I also sense there is hope for you. I am glad that you are being more reasonable. And I too agree that a neighborhood is not the buildings, or parks, it is the people. And unless the people change, then all the parks in the world are not going to matter in the long run. Agreed. However, what I say is, these changes that are occuring, the new parks, new homes, new business, are showing the members of the community that they matter, the city cares, and it was the community itself that stood up and demanded these changes....and they got them. That speaks volume, it taught the community a valuable lesson in politics, economics, the power of one and the strength of many....and yes they can change their community and themselves for the better.
If you go by Barretto Park you will see that it is in fact not covered by graffitti, not filled with bums, or drug dealers, day or night. I too thought it would sink into disrepair but that has not happened, and I think it is inidicative of a change in the mindset and attitudes of some, but not all. As I said, change comes slowly, but I see it occuring.
I also agree that it is not a nice place to live...and as early as 7 years ago, I would have agreed with you and said it was, in fact, a ****hole. However, I do sense the change, and I see the improvements that are being made from within the community, as well as the overwhelmingly positive response from the city, and developers and private investors. It is far better than it was, improvements have been and continue to be made, nonetheless, it is certianly not a nice place to live. Agreed.
That was refreshing Hustla...
The park I was talking about was Concrete Plant Park along the Bronx River in Longwood.
BTW, to confirm my point that the park will be used for prostitution, a new hotel has been opened down the block.
Obviously this hotel was built to gain revenue from the local sex trade. This will increase the amount of prostitution in the area. The new Best Western (Formally the Alps Hotel shut down for prostitution) does the same for the West Farms area.
As for Barretto Point Park. The park gets little usage thanks to it's location (Far from residential areas) and is still very new. However it will get vandalized and over time the city will neglect it since it sees little usage (it already sees light vandalism).
There are also plenty of junkies and homeless in there at night although during the day the only people you see are the fishermen and sleeping homeless/junkies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvira Black
i guess if you say it is the people, then the question really becomes who are the people...the residents of these areas.
If they are all gangstas, drug dealers, etc then the area will probably not change. But if there are working people (even working poor) who are not interested in the drug trade, hanging out at night in the parks, etc. I think there is a chance for improvement.
Communities sometimes have to work very hard (in league with the NYPD and community orgs) to start to transform a very bad situation into a better one, little by little.
In buildings where crack dealers have taken over and the residents fear for their lives if they contact the police, well, that is a very serious situation. But if enough of the regular residents of an area are law abiding (families, working poor, lower middle class) then their strongest concerns will be safety for themselves and their kids. If they have the ways and means to unite with the community, attend community board meetings, and fight together for change, it can make a difference. That is where indifference or non-involvement can stymie the process--but for those truly concerned about their kids, well, the squeaky wheel gets the oil--but you may have to squeak a bit (or a lot) longer and louder., and you won't always win (i.e. new Yankee stadium despite community protest, albeit with concessions/consolation prizes depending on how you view it). For awhile it may be two steps forward, one step back (or whatever ratio you prefer).
So yes, it is the people...all the people, not just the criminals.
Why do you think all the gangstas, drug dealers and criminals are all unemployed poor.
Why do you think they are all career criminals?
Most drug dealers have real jobs on top of what they do.
Most stick up kids not only commit robberies but sell drugs, and are part of street gangs and they break into cars.
Criminals more often then not have a few "trades". Some are career, some are on and off. Some are opportunistic.
There are a lot of criminals in these low income neighborhoods. I would go as far as saying most male youth (12-30) in these communities have commited some kind of felony crime in their life. They infuence each other. Then there is the thug culture and if you ain't down you get jumped. Being a thug is a way of life. Your either tough and show off that you are tough, or your a p-ssy and you get your ass beat and taken advantage of. It's no surprise 1 in every 3 male African Americans and Puerto Ricans have been arrested. In hunts point make that more then half. It's epidemic. A culture of violence in these neighborhoods.
Working poor are no different from unemployed poor. Low income is low income. Even the lower middle class in these areas suffer from the same problems.
Last edited by Hustla718; 09-28-2007 at 05:04 PM..
Hustla...the Best Western in the West farms area (formerly Alps) is FAR BETTER than the Alps ever was. The Alps' only clientele were prostitutes and drug dealers, however the Best Western now attracts those that come to the Bronx Zoon...as I have seen numerous non-locals patronizing this facility.....and I am around that hotel on a weekly basis with family and friends. This is not to say that it not being used for the elicit purposes anymore..but it is a VAST improvement. They have in fact bought out the rest of the block and putting in larger hotel amenities....I am happy to see it!
Hustla and Guywithacause both have good points.But please look at it this way...im originally from the east village...once a mecca for drug dealers prostitues and everything bad...but once the right things started happening like opening parks and making the quailty of life better ,the neighborhood florished...Yes alot of it now has to do with gentrafication...but it all started with the people and a few little changes.HUnts Point will soon be the sameway.
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