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Location: Formerly NYC by week; ATL by weekend...now Rio bi annually and ATL bi annually
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude
Physical property does not disappear during economic collapses.
I said truly middle class families in NYC who already owned property here will leave that property to their kids.
I am not speaking of people who took out mortgages they couldn't serve. I am speaking off homeowners (houses, condos, co-ops) that were either paid for or whose mortgages were affordable to those who took them out.
The financial markets recovered so if someone was invested in the stock market, unless they put their money in a company that went out of business much of that wealth recovered.
The 2008 economic collapse was not the first, last, or only major collapse. There was the 2000-2001 collapse (dot com collapse and then Sept. 11th), and before that the stock market crash in 87 sent the country into recession. There was the 70s stagflation. Every 10 years or so the nation goes into an economic downtown. It's a part of the business cycle.
And yet those who have money still have their money throughout it all. Recessions wipe out the marginal people, and nobody else.
Even establishment wealth was affected. We saw it first hand. And it is true that some of that wealth has been recovered organically thru the rising market. And trust me, in the context of what G-DALE stated, his comment was absolutely valid. There were more layers to the complexity than just oh, my people owned their homes and were safe and will leave it to the kiddos. Nah. If a said individual lost his job and his investments were dwindling, his hopes of finding gainful and adequate employment were reducing drastically, and that home he paid off 15 years ago he took out 2nd and/or third mortgages on it to finance college educations, etc...then things get complicated. I work at a Hedge Fund, I hear and see these stories daily. That is not to say that the sub sample of the population that you know it did not happen to. But you cannot qualify that truth. And you say true middle classers were not affected? I know lower class individuals working at the bodega's and McDonalds that didn't become destitute. So its all in context. Just be more specific if you want to use examples.
And physical property most certainly does disappear during times of economic strife. It disappears from the hands of those affected most and appears in the hands of those less affected. Once again, if you want to make those statements, think about the contextual meaning of the content you are typing.
Even establishment wealth was affected. We saw it first hand. And it is true that some of that wealth has been recovered organically thru the rising market. And trust me, in the context of what G-DALE stated, his comment was absolutely valid. There were more layers to the complexity than just oh, my people owned their homes and were safe and will leave it to the kiddos. Nah. If a said individual lost his job and his investments were dwindling, his hopes of finding gainful and adequate employment were reducing drastically, and that home he paid off 15 years ago he took out 2nd and/or third mortgages on it to finance college educations, etc...then things get complicated. I work at a Hedge Fund, I hear and see these stories daily. That is not to say that the sub sample of the population that you know it did not happen to. But you cannot qualify that truth. And you say true middle classers were not affected? I know lower class individuals working at the bodega's and McDonalds that didn't become destitute. So its all in context. Just be more specific if you want to use examples.
And physical property most certainly does disappear during times of economic strife. It disappears from the hands of those affected most and appears in the hands of those less affected. Once again, if you want to make those statements, think about the contextual meaning of the content you are typing.
Very much agree with your comments, did with those of G-Dale as well.
What ignorance, the idea that only people who were not "prepared" fared badly in the financial crash. It was a complex coincidence of factors - perhaps especially including the higher education thing that you mention - that impacted many people and still are.
Dude even if you are trying to make a valid point you sound ignorant. And nobody could displace your folks in Florida if they own. With those high property taxes they are more likely to lose their homes by being "taxed out". That's what happens when people get displaced idiot, they get priced out. Either by higher rents as renters or increased property taxes as homeowners.
Catch a clue
This is very true. This is happening in much of NYC hip neighborhoods. The increase of property taxes on paid of mortgage properties are forcing some to sell their homes. Even though they come out with money, in some sense they are displaced from the neighborhood or priced out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Dale
And how much house can a recently qualified nurse, cop, fireman or teacher really afford in NYC? My guess is most end up having to buy in the suburbs.
Also the financial crisis wiped out a lot of these inheritances. The boomers probably took out more home equity lines of credit than any other generation.
This is also very true. All of my civil servant friends are looking towards the suburbs to move too. None can not really afford NYC property to remain here yet alone rents except for fringe neigborhoods like THrogs Neck, Bay Ridge, or ENY.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLIMMACKEY
Even establishment wealth was affected. We saw it first hand. And it is true that some of that wealth has been recovered organically thru the rising market. And trust me, in the context of what G-DALE stated, his comment was absolutely valid. There were more layers to the complexity than just oh, my people owned their homes and were safe and will leave it to the kiddos. Nah. If a said individual lost his job and his investments were dwindling, his hopes of finding gainful and adequate employment were reducing drastically, and that home he paid off 15 years ago he took out 2nd and/or third mortgages on it to finance college educations, etc...then things get complicated. I work at a Hedge Fund, I hear and see these stories daily. That is not to say that the sub sample of the population that you know it did not happen to. But you cannot qualify that truth. And you say true middle classers were not affected? I know lower class individuals working at the bodega's and McDonalds that didn't become destitute. So its all in context. Just be more specific if you want to use examples.
And physical property most certainly does disappear during times of economic strife. It disappears from the hands of those affected most and appears in the hands of those less affected. Once again, if you want to make those statements, think about the contextual meaning of the content you are typing.
This is also very true. Plenty of wealth was wiped out in 2008 from 401k to equity of homes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harlem resident
Very much agree with your comments, did with those of G-Dale as well.
What ignorance, the idea that only people who were not "prepared" fared badly in the financial crash. It was a complex coincidence of factors - perhaps especially including the higher education thing that you mention - that impacted many people and still are.
I agree as well. I don't know how someone who went to an Ivy League school thinks otherwise. Higher education folks are not out of the water yet, so many have debts that will take a decade or more to pay off, and future home purchases or any life advancements will be on hold for many. Let these kids have fun for now in DC, NYC and SF for the time being.
The ones I know personally are fine financially. Ditto their inheritances.
Financial crises really wipe out people who have no money. An economic collapse is like a forest fire that burns down dead wood making room for new growth. Those wiped out in the subprime mortgage crisis were overleveraged people who could not afford to maintain the lifestyle they wanted to live.
The financial crises started with those with subprime credit scores (I think 515 and below), but it spread quickly to the broader economy. Some markets rebounded wonderfully, but others not so much. Thing is that much of the rebound is inflation related. Wages inched up while costs took leaps. While true many markets rebounded, you cannot ignore the fact that its been 7 years now since the crises.
Much of this urban gentrification is due to a new era. A long term consolidation in search of efficiency. Likelihood it will last the rest of our lives. Which is fine and completely normal. As humans we adjust. And that is exactly what politicians, investors and lenders are doing. Forcing us back into cities, the way society has functioned for centuries prior.
Even establishment wealth was affected. We saw it first hand. And it is true that some of that wealth has been recovered organically thru the rising market. And trust me, in the context of what G-DALE stated, his comment was absolutely valid. There were more layers to the complexity than just oh, my people owned their homes and were safe and will leave it to the kiddos. Nah. If a said individual lost his job and his investments were dwindling, his hopes of finding gainful and adequate employment were reducing drastically, and that home he paid off 15 years ago he took out 2nd and/or third mortgages on it to finance college educations, etc...then things get complicated. I work at a Hedge Fund, I hear and see these stories daily. That is not to say that the sub sample of the population that you know it did not happen to. But you cannot qualify that truth. And you say true middle classers were not affected? I know lower class individuals working at the bodega's and McDonalds that didn't become destitute. So its all in context. Just be more specific if you want to use examples.
And physical property most certainly does disappear during times of economic strife. It disappears from the hands of those affected most and appears in the hands of those less affected. Once again, if you want to make those statements, think about the contextual meaning of the content you are typing.
Paid for physical property does not exchange hands during time of economic strife. It's paid for.
Even if there is still a mortgage on said property, so long as the mortgage holder has the INCOME to pay off the mortgage the property stays with the person servicing the mortgage.
During the economy, even during recessions someone's loss is someone's gain. There are various ways that people short the market.
Whenever I hear people wail about the recession, it's just an excuse to cover up their own poverty.
My family's assets that I stand to inherit did not disappear during the recession. Of the people I know personally (from civil servant to teacher level income and above) they continued to pay for their properties. Several friend of mine who has a co-op lost his job, but he had savings and they got jobs in time enough to keep their co-ops. There were lower level executives.
The people who truly suffered during this time were people like hotel employees and bartenders who bought mortgages they couldn't afford. Considering how expendable these people are at their jobs and how unlikely they are to have savings, any economic shock wipes them out.
Bloomberg (establishment) went from 8 billion to 32 billion. Executives got richer than ever. Ditto entertainers.
I know that poor people would love to believe that everyone lost their money just because they don't have anything, but this isn't the case and isn't true.
"Great wealth transfer will be $30 trillion—yes, that's trillion with a T"
Nationally within the next couple of decades or so 30 trillion dollars will be transferred from baby boomers to Gen X and Gen Y.
This includes property owners in NYC. There are many older people here who own co-cops, condos, and houses. That is going to be passed on to younger people in their family. Along with any other assets they have.
The financial crises started with those with subprime credit scores (I think 515 and below), but it spread quickly to the broader economy. Some markets rebounded wonderfully, but others not so much. Thing is that much of the rebound is inflation related. Wages inched up while costs took leaps. While true many markets rebounded, you cannot ignore the fact that its been 7 years now since the crises.
Much of this urban gentrification is due to a new era. A long term consolidation in search of efficiency. Likelihood it will last the rest of our lives. Which is fine and completely normal. As humans we adjust. And that is exactly what politicians, investors and lenders are doing. Forcing us back into cities, the way society has functioned for centuries prior.
None of this has anything to do with what I said. You asked me how many middle class people I knew who were able to buy in Brooklyn and Queens these days. I said many, and that a number are due to INHERIT from their parents.
The wealthy transfer between the baby boomers and Gen X and Y, already started is estimated at 30 trillion.
This is very true. This is happening in much of NYC hip neighborhoods. The increase of property taxes on paid of mortgage properties are forcing some to sell their homes. Even though they come out with money, in some sense they are displaced from the neighborhood or priced out.
I agree as well. I don't know how someone who went to an Ivy League school thinks otherwise. Higher education folks are not out of the water yet, so many have debts that will take a decade or more to pay off, and future home purchases or any life advancements will be on hold for many. Let these kids have fun for now in DC, NYC and SF for the time being.
And yet higher education folks tend to come from families were they have parents who are homeowners, parents who were and not wiped out by the 2008 crisis (when we have a financial crisis every 10 years or so, please).
Working class scum are the ones who get wiped out during downturns. Service sector employees, those working marginal jobs during construction, low level office clerks, etc.
Cops and firemen for starters don't get laid off in a recession and they have pensions and benefits. Teachers for the most part (there are exceptions) keep their jobs as well.
Those higher up in the corporate sector tend to have savings and investments, and they'll find other jobs.
Yes, it is so terrible for kids from the suburbs (not true, better to be from the suburbs than one of the poorest counties in the nation) and yes college graduates are suffering so badly (better to have advanced degrees, even if you do have debt) than work ****ty McDonalds or other fast food or retail jobs (enjoy working the minimum wage and going home to the housing projects).
You twist things because you're suffering in your working class world and it pains you to see others doing so much better than you.
And yet higher education folks tend to come from families were they have parents who are homeowners, parents who were and not wiped out by the 2008 crisis (when we have a financial crisis every 10 years or so, please).
Working class scum are the ones who get wiped out during downturns. Service sector employees, those working marginal jobs during construction, low level office clerks, etc.
Cops and firemen for starters don't get laid off in a recession and they have pensions and benefits. Teachers for the most part (there are exceptions) keep their jobs as well.
Those higher up in the corporate sector tend to have savings and investments, and they'll find other jobs.
Yes, it is so terrible for kids from the suburbs (not true, better to be from the suburbs than one of the poorest counties in the nation) and yes college graduates are suffering so badly (better to have advanced degrees, even if you do have debt) than work ****ty McDonalds or other fast food or retail jobs (enjoy working the minimum wage and going home to the housing projects).
You twist things because you're suffering in your working class world and it pains you to see others doing so much better than you.
Government layoffs do happen. Here in NYS and NYC that rarely happened unless it was a provincial position. Agencies and authorities initiated hiring freezes. Plenty of workers got hurt during the downturn regardless of who is on the top to bottom. Even though those at the top kept their money, a good portion lost their companies or entire corporations whipped out. Anyone remember Lehman Brothers? Usually every generation or somewhere around every 20 years capitalism goes through a business crisis, this I know already. One of my favorite books besides the Communist Manifesto and Mein Kempf, is called the Wealth Of Nations, have you read it before? The US has been through numerous business crisis since after the American civil war. The US in the past 150 years have been through a dozen business crisis. The greatest prosperity was between 1900-1929 and 1945 to the 1973 oil crisis.
Even though I agree it is better to be from some suburb than being from the poorest county in the country and working fast food and living in the Pjs. I can assure you I'm not one of those persons, but you probably think so? I did go to college and earned a BA. If I want I can go for my Masters and thinking about it. I have a 3 bedroom 1 and a half bathroom that is 2000 per month rent, and I have a transplant that wants to rent out a room. More money for me! I'm not suffering, just fighting to move on up and tired of the NYC rat race. I make double what my census tract makes. I even get to travel around the country or overseas if I want to. I'm just trying to do better and that's all. I went to college here in the city, I did not go to no big school and I have no debt at all. Federal grants paid half and I paid the rest of 2500 to bursars office per semester. Again I'm just trying to do better. A transplant friend that I know even is sharing ideas together about starting a business or an app. I also love code academy. I'm just tired of the rat race and so on which is burning me out along with other nuances like the MTA, stuck up ugly women who think they are hot, poor air quality, and yes I'm tired of the Bronx too. People like you give NYC a bad name. As for those marginal jobs? I hope those jobs disappear, because who will take out the trash for you, or who sill stock your whole food products, or even cash it out? Yourself?
Last edited by Bronxguyanese; 04-01-2015 at 02:08 AM..
None of this has anything to do with what I said. You asked me how many middle class people I knew who were able to buy in Brooklyn and Queens these days. I said many, and that a number are due to INHERIT from their parents.
The wealthy transfer between the baby boomers and Gen X and Y, already started is estimated at 30 trillion.
None of this has anything to do with what I said. You asked me how many middle class people I knew who were able to buy in Brooklyn and Queens these days. I said many, and that a number are due to INHERIT from their parents.
The wealthy transfer between the baby boomers and Gen X and Y, already started is estimated at 30 trillion.
In that case, you don't think anyone you know is going to inherit their parents debt? Causing them to have to liquidate assets to cover? Most don't go around advertising how much debt one has. If you have a mortgage you are in debt.
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