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Yeah I don't know what that guy is talking about. If he lived in Bushwick that would be one thing, but Elmhurst does not seem to have many white people moving there.
I spent a lot of time as a kid up in those neighborhoods (Woodside, Elmhurst, Corona and Jackson Heights). This was back in the '80s and '90s. There weren't many white people around back then, but they floated around. They have definitely dwindled. Corona and Elmhurst are pretty much down to zero. Woodside has a couple left closer to Maspeth, but their days are numbered. Jackson Heights is probably the only one of these neighborhoods that has seen an uptick in white people.
Back then, Bushwick still had a few Sicilians (towards the Ridgewood border), but they eventually all died off. They were the stubborn ones that wouldn't move no matter what. Bed-Stuy was pretty much 100% Black. There weren't even that many Puerto Ricans there yet at the time.
I spent a lot of time as a kid up in those neighborhoods (Woodside, Elmhurst, Corona and Jackson Heights). This was back in the '80s and '90s. There weren't many white people around back then, but they floated around. They have definitely dwindled. Corona and Elmhurst are pretty much down to zero. Woodside has a couple left closer to Maspeth, but their days are numbered. Jackson Heights is probably the only one of these neighborhoods that has seen an uptick in white people.
Back then, Bushwick still had a few Sicilians (towards the Ridgewood border), but they eventually all died off. They were the stubborn ones that wouldn't move no matter what. Bed-Stuy was pretty much 100% Black. There weren't even that many Puerto Ricans there yet at the time.
Yeah I took a long walk through Corona the other day and saw literally no white people. I don't think I saw a single person who wasn't Hispanic. Elmhurst to me seems like Corona except with a lot of Asians.
Haven't Maspeth and Ridgewood became less white as well? Although Ridgewood might be becoming more white again due to its proximity to Bushwick.
Yeah I took a long walk through Corona the other day and saw literally no white people. I don't think I saw a single person who wasn't Hispanic. Elmhurst to me seems like Corona except with a lot of Asians.
Haven't Maspeth and Ridgewood became less white as well? Although Ridgewood might be becoming more white again due to its proximity to Bushwick.
Any white people you still see in Corona are either those living in Middle Village or Whitestone that own mobbed up businesses in Corona. Other than that you'll have some Russian and Bukharan spillover from Forest Hills and Rego Park to the South.
Maspeth is a diverse neighborhood. You have Poles, Chinese, Filipinos, Italians, Puerto Ricans, etc... Even some Irish still around (once upon a time it was an Irish neighborhood). The Poles getting gentrified out of Greenpoint is the only thing keeping the white population from shrinking.
Similiar for Ridgewood. Very diverse. Very European, and very Hispanic. The Italians are being replaced by the Poles from Greenpoint. The Slavs and Serbs have been here for awhile replacing the Germans. You'll find a growing Turkish, Nepalese, and Coptic Egyptian community. Puerto Ricans are still the dominant Hispanic culture, but Colombians and Ecuadorians have been moving in to. You also have the Ohioans from Williamsburg and Greenpoint moving in after realizing how much nicer of a neighborhood it is than Bushwick and Bed-Stuy.
There has been a target store in East NY for more than 15 years. It's shopping demographic is overwhelmingly minority. There is also a target in Green Acres mall in valley stream. According to this board Green Acres is not exactly geared towards high income people. There is another Target close to the Belmont Race track. The demographics is not necessarily high income.
Target is no more a sign of gentrification than Kmart is. They are both glorified Walmarts and Walmart is trash.
Originally Posted by G-Dale View Post
What marginalized neighborhood without a highway exit has a Target?
ENY has been a marginalized neighborhood for a long time. The atlantic terminal target mainly attracted the Flatbush, bedstuy, bushwick etc non gentrifying shoppers when it first opened. There were not alot of hipsters/gentrifiers hanging out in Atlantic terminal in it's early years.
The anti-gentrification protesters seems to be of the opion that target signifies impending gentrification.
Gentrification has become synonymous with white folks (regardless of income level) moving in. I was just pointing out that most of the target stores that I listed were mainly patronized by minorities.
When these Target stores opened in other neighborhoods it didn't change the demographics of the neighborhood. With the exception of Downtown Brooklyn, as there were many other factors which contributed to it's gentrification.
The high income shoppers point was to point out the ridiculousness of some of the anti gentrifiers. For the most part target, Kmart and Wal-Mart shoppers are not high income shoppers. Therefore, there is no need to get into hysterics about the neighborhood becoming unaffordable if a Target moves in.
Originally Posted by G-Dale View Post
What marginalized neighborhood without a highway exit has a Target?
ENY has been a marginalized neighborhood for a long time. The atlantic terminal target mainly attracted the Flatbush, bedstuy, bushwick etc non gentrifying shoppers when it first opened. There were not alot of hipsters/gentrifiers hanging out in Atlantic terminal in it's early years.
The anti-gentrification protesters seems to be of the opion that target signifies impending gentrification.
Gentrification has become synonymous with white folks (regardless of income level) moving in. I was just pointing out that most of the target stores that I listed were mainly patronized by minorities.
When these Target stores opened in other neighborhoods it didn't change the demographics of the neighborhood. With the exception of Downtown Brooklyn, as there were many other factors which contributed to it's gentrification.
The high income shoppers point was to point out the ridiculousness of some of the anti gentrifiers. For the most part target, Kmart and Wal-Mart shoppers are not high income shoppers. Therefore, there is no need to get into hysterics about the neighborhood becoming unaffordable if a Target moves in.
I don't disagree with you in theory, but I disagree with how you insinuate that all minorities are marginalized. Many, if not most, aren't. They just choose to live in neighborhoods that house NYCs marginalized population. Minorities are the majority in large swaths of Brooklyn and Queens. If they were all so marginalized, Target wouldn't be opening up locations in and around their neighborhoods.
Any white people you still see in Corona are either those living in Middle Village or Whitestone that own mobbed up businesses in Corona. Other than that you'll have some Russian and Bukharan spillover from Forest Hills and Rego Park to the South.
Maspeth is a diverse neighborhood. You have Poles, Chinese, Filipinos, Italians, Puerto Ricans, etc... Even some Irish still around (once upon a time it was an Irish neighborhood). The Poles getting gentrified out of Greenpoint is the only thing keeping the white population from shrinking.
Similiar for Ridgewood. Very diverse. Very European, and very Hispanic. The Italians are being replaced by the Poles from Greenpoint. The Slavs and Serbs have been here for awhile replacing the Germans. You'll find a growing Turkish, Nepalese, and Coptic Egyptian community. Puerto Ricans are still the dominant Hispanic culture, but Colombians and Ecuadorians have been moving in to. You also have the Ohioans from Williamsburg and Greenpoint moving in after realizing how much nicer of a neighborhood it is than Bushwick and Bed-Stuy.
I bet a lot of people new to that area think parts of Ridgewood are in Bushwick. Isn't the Halsey street station right on the Queens border?
Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Dale
I don't disagree with you in theory, but I disagree with how you insinuate that all minorities are marginalized. Many, if not most, aren't. They just choose to live in neighborhoods that house NYCs marginalized population. Minorities are the majority in large swaths of Brooklyn and Queens. If they were all so marginalized, Target wouldn't be opening up locations in and around their neighborhoods.
Not only that, but if they're immigrants then that means they chose to come to one of the most expensive cities in the US.
ugh, I actually just read the article that I linked to in my first post and there's a Latino anti-gentrification guy getting all nostalgic about the old theater that this Target will be replacing. Well, I actually went to an event in that theater about 8 or 10 years ago and it was positively derelict.
It was demolished because they weren't showing movies there after 2013. I heard the owners could not afford the conversion to digital, not to mention the high rent. So not only were there no movies anymore, it was also dirty and run down! And now this anti-gentrification activist wants to cry about taking an unused, derelict building and giving it a new use as a Target.
I don't get it. Just because there was no developer who would sink millions into a project to restore the theater, that means it should sit empty?
The other thing he says is that people of color are being pushed out of Elmhurst. I wonder if that is really true. What might be true is that rents are going higher, as they are pretty much everywhere with good subway access in Queens, and ANYONE OF ANY COLOR who can't pay the rent has to move along.
As far as I know, the rents in Elmhurst are not any higher than they are in many other transit-friendly areas of Queens. As we know from this board, even many areas of the Bronx with good train access are seeing a hike in rents. So obviously it is not the coming of Target that is causing rents to rise.
Target just happens to be the new store under protest in this case but really the activists are against all new development. They’re against the new housing aimed at people who make more money than the average resident. Their argument is that newer development will attract higher-income people who then mainly patronize higher-priced places. This attracts even more development and more businesses. Demand goes up for the entire neighborhood because of the newer construction and greater amenities. Leading to higher rents which eventually force out the lower-income residents and businesses.
A couple of people on this thread are making it about race but it’s really about income. I’ve seen the anti gentrification talk in other neighborhoods where they’re trying to protect the old school white-owned businesses.
Really, the anti gentrification activists don’t make sense. Restricting development and housing supply is what leads to higher prices in the long run. There needs to be much more development to keep up with growing demand in the city.
Last edited by MC305; 03-13-2018 at 06:23 AM..
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