The Outer Boroughs are the "soul" of NYC! (Greenwich: transplants, real estate)
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Just prefacing this by saying I've lived in NYC for more than half a century. Born in Queens; lived on the UES, LES, and now in the Bronx for a few years.
Every hood had its good points, and it also depends on timing. I was very fortunate because as a kid I had a semi surburban hood with great schools. Then after college in my twenties I could afford the UES, as many college grads could back then (albeit a 5th floor walkup). Then the LES in a spacious coop. Now the Bx in a spacious coop in a so called "rougher" hood.
In any case, I think that my timing has been right both historically and personally, since all hoods change, and ebb and flow. In my view, right here and now, my area of the North West Bronx is "up and coming" but still rough around the edges, and I wouldn't have it any other way (almost).
There are a lot of folks who come here from elsewhere and move to the newly hip hoods. When enough of them move there, the demographics change and slowly but surely they complain that the "mom and pops" have been displaced, and the "soul" has been drained out of the area they once loved.
My feeling is that NY'ers are by definition ahead of the curve, and this goes for real estate especially. Having lived on the LES (and my mom and her family were born and raised there) I witnessed something that many could never predict: the transformation from a hood that didn't even seem like part of Manhattan to a relatively "hip" destination.
Meanwhile, the area of the Bx where I live (including the nearby Grand Concourse) was a place where my mom's relatives remember some more well off members of their family moving to because it was much classier than the urban ghetto of the LES.
When I go out in the evening, I see so many different ethnic groups...residents and store owners. The clerks and store owners will call you mami, and if you know a smidgen of Spanish it makes a big difference too.
The park near my coop is full of kids and families who picnic, barbeque, have birthday parties, and play bingo in the evening in large groups. The hundred year old Catholic Church down the block has weekly outdoor masses with singing and offers mass in English, Spanish, and Korean.
The nearby Aqueduct Park, though it attracts semi-homeless and other sketchy characters, also has chess tables where folks play. On the corner by the bodega guys play dominoes.
The vendors include new and used books, clothing, handbags, perfume, etc. And the Fordham Road shops and 99 cent stores make it possible to buy necessities dirt cheap.
On the streets you can people watch and see all the young girls and guys strutting their stuff. Women come in all shapes and sizes and unlike Manhattan are appreciated in all their varieties.
On the streets you can hear salsa or hip hop; in the stores you may hear Middle Eastern music.
In short, this hood has heart and soul. Many folks who wouldn't "dare" set foot here are some of the same folks who complain that rents are too high and other areas too gentrified.
The city has invested money in a state of the art library and cultural center, renovated parks, and soon the Kingsbridge Armory will become a huge mall. There are more and more cultural attractions, which makes traveling to the City for entertainment less necessary, but the commuting options are plentiful.
Shouldn't you have included a disclaimer of your interest?
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Just to address your question more seriously.
Economics.
A year or so from now, deep into the economic downturn, how are you seeing "The Bronx"?
Isn't the Bronx's future tied to the continued influx of Transplants? Is so, what happens when the influx stops?
In Economic terms we are entering an era of Contraction. The major, if not only, incentive to move to the Bronx, especially for Transplants is the un-affordability of Manhattan.
I think its been evidenced to the extreme, that real estate prices and rents reached an UNSUSTAINABLE level; fueled by a financing methodology that was financially unsound and unsustainable. So, where is the money coming from?
All the things you mentioned are all well and good, but show me the money!
IMO, prices and rents are going to fall back to a level which will make the Bronx and other NYC markets more attractive, along with a reduction in demand (as Transplants wane) the Bronx and other outlying areas (Bushwick, Bed-Sty, Harlem, etc.) will be victim of the contraction.
Well, here's how I see it (remember this comes from an ex-Manhattanite of long, long standing):
The economic downturn may be bad for some, but good for others. Likewise, the fortunes of the Bronx may be immaterial to those who live in Manhattan, but the fact that it is showing a slow, steady improvement is good for us who live here...with emphasis on slow and steady.
I'm not looking for my hood to become another Williamsburg. It's a working class area, with some middle class thrown in. One of the points I was trying to make was that if a hood turns too "hot," it's not good for the existing residents--and in some cases for the newer ones as well.
Manhattan has been gentrified and unaffordable to most middle class folks since the 80s. Thus, many areas of Queens and Brooklyn (as well as Manhattan) that were once anathema to those of a bit more means have become fashionable, and again this flux is as old as the city itself.
Some Manhattan transplants no longer like the "Disneyland" that Manhattan has become, and think it has become too "suburbanized" and homogenized. It's still great to visit, but many cannot afford the space and other amenities they need without looking elsewhere. This is how Manhattan came to be gentified almost in toto in the first place. Years ago, the UWS, LES, TriBeca, SoHo, Harlem, etc were a "no man's land" of "ghetto."
Clarification: Post industrial hoods like TriBeCa and SoHo were not "ghetto" but were not residential til artists craving space and light took over and converted the lofts. But in many cases this was an even "braver" move by true "urban pioneers," since the areas originally had little to no residential amenities.
This is a really cool thrad that I will follow with interest. It's nice to get the scoop from people who live there or have spent a lot of time there.
I live about 100 miles north of NYC at the moment and am pretty new to the state. I haven't spent as much time in NYC as I'd like to, but Bx always seemed really appealilng the times I've been there.
I am seriously considering applying for a job there, but I have two daughters in elementary school. I really need to educte myself regarding cost of housing/living and quality of schools and so on before I try to take the plunge.
Got one on the hook Elvira. Let's see if you can close?!
That's right Fred, BROOKLYN!!!
For natives, Brooklyn and the Bronx are like oil and water---they just don't mix!
Btw, in case any would be Transplants/Transplants get it twisted, the Bronx is not the soul of NYC. Though it just may be Elvira's soul! I can dig that.
Just to get the record, um, straight, I am not a realtor, and not particularly interested in having everyone and their cousin's dog move to my hood. One of my points is that this is one of the reasons I like it so much here. But again, thanks for keeping what appears to be a dead thread alive...
Griffis and Fred, thank you both. Brooklyn, of course, is a much more, um, popular borough nowadays, though like all boroughs, it has many diverse, disparate neighborhoods, so it can't be described and disparaged as a whole IMO.
There was something I read long ago that really stuck with me; it had to do with Brooklyn artists who had moved to places like Williamsburg and how it reflected the fact that the Manhattan art scene and real estate boom had rendered it "bourgeois."
IMO, Manhattan is now a borough which has its share of art dealers and wealthy art conoisseurs but a dearth of artists unless they are extremely well off. In fact, I've read articles that, similar to the fear of a "brain drain," apprehension about an exodus of creative (albeit poor or struggling) artists and other creative types. Greenwich Village, for example, was a hub of creativity where countless soon to be renowned artists, writers, and others came to live when the rents were cheaper.
There's a book called "Bobos in Paradise," which describes "bourgeois bohemians." Although not specifically about artists, I'd daresay that there are those who are in creative industries who enjoy living in a more livable/workable space as well as the vigor of a "marginal" area. This has been true since "bohemians" came into popular being, from the garrets of Paris in the 19th century onward.
I too remember my Manhattan pride and feeling of "in-crowd" status, but since I've never been wealthy, when I lived on the UES as a twenty something I sometimes envied those a bit further west who were genuinely wealthy. But the great thing about NYC is that even a poor person can take advantage of many free and cheap attractions, and in an area like mine they can live for a fraction of the cost of Manhattan, whether it be the cost of housing or food or goods and services.
Perhaps the thread should be re named "the outer boroughs are the soul of NYC?" What say the moderator?
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