If society is supposedly so tolerant of homosexuality, why are so many men paranoid of being seen as 'gay'? (children, conversation)
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No, black civil rights are not and never will be comparable to gay rights,
Sure they are. They are discriminated against for something that for all we know cannot be changed, just like the color of one's skin. Or, if you want to be 100% accurate, blacks can change the color of their skin but they shouldn't have to, be asked or expected to. Hell, the thought shouldn't even cross their mind. Nor should homosexuals ever be discriminated against on the basis of something they cannot (or at least should not) be asked to change. Unless you can present some solid evidence to show that gay marriage or adoption is harmful, to compete with all the evidence that neither of them are harmful, there is just as much reason to oppose gay rights as there are to oppose the rights of African Americans (i.e., NO reason at all).
Uh oh...someone said what Ive always known and written about here. It is astounding the number of not only gays, but gay rights activists (this includes straight people) who are bigots and intolerant themselves. I dare even say a majority from what Ive seen exhibited. Cant tolerate a difference of opinion, even if it agrees with their overall unfettered right to do whatever they please. Ive said it before, and Ill say it again: They consider me "uneducated, bigoted unenlightened, ignorant" or whatever other sophomoric jab the simpletons want to use...I have a chuckle, I take it in stride and it goes in one ear and out the other for me.
I have my views on sexuality just like I have my views on everything else. If Im supposed to be sermonized about what to believe about sexuality in efforts to "educate, enlighten" etc and all those other thought control tactics Ive seen employed through tacit word association, then I consider those who are doing the sermonizing not only ignorant but goofy as well. Ignorant to think that they and a handful of people with half the alphabet behind their name who call themselves doctors, can use word association tactics to manipulate everyone they come across into believing that unless they regurgitate a bunch of hypothesized soft science about sexuality in general then they are ignorant (you must not only agree with what they hypothesize about homosexuality, but you must buy into the entire "educated opinion" about sexuality in general -- even your own sexuality -- they reserve the right to dictate to you what you are, and how you may classify yourself because they have the alphabet after their name) . You're supposed to abide this thought control out of fear of being considered "ignorant" or "uninformed" by them; the arbiters of the rules of sexuality. Kind of the way that if you dont recite, to the letter, the approved codes for sexuality, you're told you fear gays, or fear being gay etc.
The accusation of fear (fear of homosexuality, fear of being considered "ignorant", fear of being considered "uneducated") has come to represent a challenge to one's psyche and ego to be overcome at all costs here. It is intended to immediately put the accused on the defense, at which time the accused usually reacts reflexively by either conforming their opinion to that of the accuser or becoming derailed from the topic by defending their integrity from accusations of being fearful. However, I dont consider this sort of challenge to be an authentic one. Its manipulative at best. And besides, as the old saying goes: the only thing to fear is fear itself. If they cant convince me Im ignorant for disagreeing with them, they certainly wont convince me that Im scared by doing the same..lol
It was refreshing to read your post. This is the best post of in this entire thread!! The absolutely best! Thank you so much for your brilliant post on this issue. It's one of the best I've read in a long time! You nailed everything on it's head!
How does is it insulting to bring up black civil rights, when talking about LGBT rights when both are basically trying to achieve the same goal? Being seen and treated as equal in our society. Are they taking anything away from you? No. You see this as some kind of competition, what is there to compete over? Civil rights isn't a f'n business.
So your gonna judge a whole group of people just because a few overzealous idiots? (every group has them) Gays don't owe us an a apology, for what? treating them like less than human? Black LGBT people get treated like dirt in our community and you want them to apologize, please. Get off you moral high horse and get a clue. If you don't like these people because who they are, then yeah your gonna be labeled a bigot.
Nobody owes you or me nothing in today's society. Respect is earned. Being bitter because some gay person rubbed you the wrong doesn't give you cause to hate an entire group of people. Deal with that particular person and move on.
Oh and BTW I guess black folks were "arrogant and aggressive" when they took on Jim Crow in the South.
No the hell black civil rights movement are not and never will be on the same goals of advancement as the lgbt community. Hell will freeze over and pigs will fly. Comparing the black civil rights movement to the lgbt rights is insulting, offensive, disgusting, racist, and inaccurate. Blacks do not like the comparisons and have said so, but the disrespectful, entitled, ignorant, bigoted, intolerant gay activists are willfully ignorant and completely deaf when it comes to respect. Blacks like me are in agreement that we reject the comparisons. And who made this a comparison between black civil rights movement and gays in the first place? The gays. Blacks do not want to be compared with sexual immorality and perversion that is looked down on the greater society and the world. The black community is not and never will be in competition with gays. The lgbt are quite many manipulative by making two distinct and separate groups in the first place. It's the lgbt that are in competition seeking validation for their cause. Blacks can stand on their own history without using others to get ahead. And no blacks did not create this competition with gays in the first place, but lgbt are trying to use blacks as an opportunity to advance your cause. Lgbt are the ones making this a freaking business in the first place. Don't trying to use reverse psychology on me because you'll lose.
If gays can't control their own overzealous bigots, don't whine to me like a spineless coward when I call them out. Own it or shut the hell up about. Black lgbt being treated like dirt is the problem of the lgbt community addressing those issues.
Don't make me give you a much needed history lesson. Jim Crow and any and everything blacks went through in America alone has nothing to do with gay rights. It's offensive, racist, manipulative, underhanded, and insulting of you to bring up racism in order to illicit some type of correlation between racism and homosexuality. Hell to the no! And yes, I'm going to judge the ignorant, hateful, racist, back stabbing, two faced lgbt community for all their shortcomings and racist attacks during prop 8 and now. Dan Savage was one of the gay activists vocal about his racist attacks trying to justify them against blacks. The biggest conjob the lgbt community has perpetrated was presenting themselves as innocent, harmless lambs. No, don't use the black community's civil rights history, then turn around and use the other side of your face to bring up racism as if the garner sympathy. That's emotional blackmail.
And I'm a free black woman in America afforded rights, and I am owed basic rights in America and the freedoms fought by my ancestors. Being unapologetic black, never hiding in the closet like cowards waiting for the right time to come out because "they're being true to themselves". And I'm on my high moral horse standing proud on the shoulders of my ancestors, and the likes of gay activists and supporters will NEVER KNOCK ME OFF. As if your come from a place of honesty and integrity in the first place.
Don't insult me by talking about respect when the lgbt is completely absent of it. And please explain how I hate an entire group because I don't agree with them? Please explain that to me because I'm interested in your brilliant theory.
Last edited by freespiritbty; 05-18-2013 at 12:32 AM..
I don't need to know anything more about you than the angry words you use; I don't need to accuse you of being bitter -- your own words indict you.
your post is a lame overreach. Playing games like this make you simple minded and ridiculous, with a hint of self-righteousness. No, you don't know a thing about me, know nothing. Stay in your lane.
No the hell black civil rights movement are not and never will be on the same goals of advancement as the lgbt community. Hell will freeze over and pigs will fly. Comparing the black civil rights movement to the lgbt rights is insulting, offensive, disgusting, racist, and inaccurate. Blacks do not like the comparisons and have said so, but the disrespectful, entitled, ignorant, bigoted, intolerant gay activists are willfully ignorant and completely deaf when it comes to respect. Blacks like me are in agreement that we reject the comparisons. And who made this a comparison between black civil rights movement and gays in the first place? The gays. Blacks do not want to be compared with sexual immorality and perversion that is looked down on the greater society and the world. The black community is not and never will be in competition with gays. The lgbt are quite many manipulative by making two distinct and separate groups in the first place. It's the lgbt that are in competition seeking validation for their cause. Blacks can stand on their own history without using others to get ahead. And no blacks did not create this competition with gays in the first place, but lgbt are trying to use blacks as an opportunity to advance your cause. Lgbt are the ones making this a freaking business in the first place. Don't trying to use reverse psychology on me because you'll lose.
If gays can't control their own overzealous bigots, don't whine to me like a spineless coward when I call them out. Own it or shut the hell up about. Black lgbt being treated like dirt is the problem of the lgbt community addressing those issues.
Don't make me give you a much needed history lesson. Jim Crow and any and everything blacks went through in America alone has nothing to do with gay rights. It's offensive, racist, manipulative, underhanded, and insulting of you to bring up racism in order to illicit some type of correlation between racism and homosexuality. Hell to the no! And yes, I'm going to judge the ignorant, hateful, racist, back stabbing, two faced lgbt community for all their shortcomings and racist attacks during prop 8 and now. Dan Savage was one of the gay activists vocal about his racist attacks trying to justify them against blacks. The biggest conjob the lgbt community has perpetrated was presenting themselves as innocent, harmless lambs. No, don't use the black community's civil rights history, then turn around and use the other side of your face to bring up racism as if the garner sympathy. That's emotional blackmail.
And I'm a free black woman in America afforded rights, and I am owed basic rights in America and the freedoms fought by my ancestors. Being unapologetic black, never hiding in the closet like cowards waiting for the right time to come out because "they're being true to themselves". And I'm on my high moral horse standing proud on the shoulders of my ancestors, and the likes of gay activists and supporters will NEVER KNOCK ME OFF. As if your come from a place of honesty and integrity in the first place.
Don't insult me by talking about respect when the lgbt is completely absent of it. And please explain how I hate an entire group because I don't agree with them? Please explain that to me because I'm interested in your brilliant theory.
WTF is your problem lady?. This pointless rant only proves that you have personal hang ups against gays, and your using the civil rights movement as a cover for your bigotry. Many people who fought for our rights in the civil rights era support the current gay rights movement, but you probably ignore that because it doesnt fit your personal view of people who are LGBT.
Yeah, some gay activist blame blacks, latinos for the victory of prop 8 in CA, they are just as big of a fool as your making yourself out to be. Supporters of prop 8 did a **** poor job of reaching out to minorites, but people like you are just proving the point and stereotype that blacks are homophobic, and making it harder on people like me trying to prove otherwise. Again you need to get an f'n clue, trying to use a movement that people fought and died in as an excuse to justify your own personal hate of other people.
WTF is your problem lady?. This pointless rant only proves that you have personal hang ups against gays, and your using the civil rights movement as a cover for your bigotry. Many people who fought for our rights in the civil rights era support the current gay rights movement, but you probably ignore that because it doesnt fit your personal view of people who are LGBT.
Yeah, some gay activist blame blacks, latinos for the victory of prop 8 in CA, they are just as big of a fool as your making yourself out to be. Supporters of prop 8 did a **** poor job of reaching out to minorites, but people like you are just proving the point and stereotype that blacks are homophobic, and making it harder on people like me trying to prove otherwise. Again you need to get an f'n clue, trying to use a movement that people fought and died in as an excuse to justify your own personal hate of other people.
Go back and read my previous post because I was extremely clear on my problem with lgbt. I nor anyone in the black community opposing the lgbt's incessant, ignorant, racist, offensive, insulting comparisons to gay rights are bound by loyalty nor appreciate the comparisons as if we're in the same struggles when the fact is we're not. I disagree and you can call it personal hangups as a way of being dismissive all you like, but that's another reason why I'll never get behind the lgbt because of comments like yours. Don't use black community as a means of political expediency to add gravitas to your immoral lifestyle and sexual perversions as being as normal and natural as being black. If lgbt wants to compare yourselves to other people, then do so, but leave black civil rights movement and history out of it, especially since many lgbt liberal progressives have a disdain for blacks by calling them homophobic. Many of you try to have it both ways based on how you've dealt with hiding your sexuality for so long from society out of fear of rejection.
When prop 8 vote came out, the true face of lgbt was shown, and it was the majority of liberal progressive gay activists calling blacks the most ugly racist derogatory names I've seen, and I've spent time in the South among the KKK. Try to disregard, downplay my posts all you like but you're a desperate fool downplaying racism in the lgbt. I read the most hateful racist language from the so called minority gays.
And no, it wasn't some gay activists,and the loudest mouth of the bunch was that obnoxious jack ass Dan Savage in the press calling blacks homophobic. So who do you think you are exactly expecting blacks to come out and support lgbt after insulting blacks passive aggressively? When the reports came out that other groups voted against prop 8, many of you gay activists through temper tantrums, much like what you are doing now in order to avoid dealing with the issue. Personal hangups are when gays try to use blacks to pad their resume of oppression, then turn around get pissy mad when blacks are rejecting inaccurate comparisons. Yes, when gays do a better job of reaching out the the black community instead of leeching the black civil rights movement, then come back to me and we'll talk. Or until you can prove that I have personal hate for other people, which you mean lgbt, shut up and sit down. Don't ever question my intelligence you ignorant racist trash as if you're some kind of fantastic genius.
Stand on your own gay history and stop using black civil rights movement history to benefit your own gay agenda. Many of the lgbt would know about bigotry and racism since many of you are the most intolerant group ever.
My ancestors, including my recent relatives fought for black equal rights, and they did so being out and open as blacks, not hiding like cowards in the closet, so don't you dare sit there on your ass fixing your fingers to type dumb crap to me about what my people fought for. Like I told you and your cosigning buddy before, you don't know me.
Last edited by freespiritbty; 05-18-2013 at 07:58 AM..
Yes, when gays do a better job of reaching out the the black community instead of leeching the black civil rights movement,
This reaching out has happened in Kentucky, and there is more solidarity among the blacks and gays/lesbians on behalf of civil rights and opposing discrimination. I think this is in part because some of the leadership in the black community saw..or felt...they were being used by conservatives. In other cases ther leadership of the local civil rights movement already had some experiece crossing lines, and the gay rights movement made an effort early-on to reach out.
The "leeching" tconcept is sort of silly. Since it was the blacks who sort of pioneered fighting against discrimination they created a model of how to do a civil rights struggle...or really more than civil rights, also a cultural struggle. So other groups who came later (not just the gays but the Chicanos, Indians, Feminists, the people with disabilities), were influenced by the black strugge.
If you look at the start of the gay rights movement, the Gay Liberation era, it was coming out of the same social ferment of the 1960s that produced things like the Black Panthers, Black is Beautiful, etc...the maybe more radical and cutlural side of the civil rights movement, not specifically the earlier movement led by MLK, SNCC, etc...though SNCC sort of became more radical as time went on. There was a lot of influencing that went on during that era...the late 1960s & early 1970s.
Here's an interesting statement from that era, from Huey Newton, about the gay rights and feminist movements. Now Newton and the Black Panters were pretty much the radical fringe of the civil rights movement, so it goes to show you how "out there" gay liberation was, back in the day:
Quote:
We must gain security in ourselves and therefore have respect and feelings for all oppressed people. . . . Remember, we have not established a revolutionary value system; we are only in the process of establishing it. I do not remember our ever constituting any value that said that a revolutionary must say offensive things towards homosexuals, or that a revolutionary should make sure that women do not speak out about their own particular kind of oppression. As a matter of fact, it is just the opposite: we say that we recognize the women's right to be free. We have not said much about the homosexual at all, but we must relate to the homosexual movement because it is a real thing. And I know through reading, and through my life experience and observations that homosexuals are not given freedom and liberty by anyone in the society. They might be the most oppresed people in the society. . . .
....When we have revolutionary conferences, rallies, and demonstrations, there should be full participation of the gay liberation movement and the women's liberation movement. Some groups might be more revolutionary than others. We should not use the actions of a few to say that they are all reactionary or counterrevolutionary, because they are not.
Go back and read my previous post because I was extremely clear on my problem with lgbt. I nor anyone in the black community opposing the lgbt's incessant, ignorant, racist, offensive, insulting comparisons to gay rights are bound by loyalty nor appreciate the comparisons as if we're in the same struggles when the fact is we're not. I disagree and you can call it personal hangups as a way of being dismissive all you like, but that's another reason why I'll never get behind the lgbt because of comments like yours. Don't use black community as a means of political expediency to add gravitas to your immoral lifestyle and sexual perversions as being as normal and natural as being black. If lgbt wants to compare yourselves to other people, then do so, but leave black civil rights movement and history out of it, especially since many lgbt liberal progressives have a disdain for blacks by calling them homophobic. Many of you try to have it both ways based on how you've dealt with hiding your sexuality for so long from society out of fear of rejection.
When prop 8 vote came out, the true face of lgbt was shown, and it was the majority of liberal progressive gay activists calling blacks the most ugly racist derogatory names I've seen, and I've spent time in the South among the KKK. Try to disregard, downplay my posts all you like but you're a desperate fool downplaying racism in the lgbt. I read the most hateful racist language from the so called minority gays.
And no, it wasn't some gay activists,and the loudest mouth of the bunch was that obnoxious jack ass Dan Savage in the press calling blacks homophobic. So who do you think you are exactly expecting blacks to come out and support lgbt after insulting blacks passive aggressively? When the reports came out that other groups voted against prop 8, many of you gay activists through temper tantrums, much like what you are doing now in order to avoid dealing with the issue. Personal hangups are when gays try to use blacks to pad their resume of oppression, then turn around get pissy mad when blacks are rejecting inaccurate comparisons. Yes, when gays do a better job of reaching out the the black community instead of leeching the black civil rights movement, then come back to me and we'll talk. Or until you can prove that I have personal hate for other people, which you mean lgbt, shut up and sit down. Don't ever question my intelligence you ignorant racist trash as if you're some kind of fantastic genius.
Stand on your own gay history and stop using black civil rights movement history to benefit your own gay agenda. Many of the lgbt would know about bigotry and racism since many of you are the most intolerant group ever.
My ancestors, including my recent relatives fought for black equal rights, and they did so being out and open as blacks, not hiding like cowards in the closet, so don't you dare sit there on your ass fixing your fingers to type dumb crap to me about what my people fought for. Like I told you and your cosigning buddy before, you don't know me.
No I dont know you, and wouldnt want to. Cant stand being around bitter bigots. At the same time you dont know me, and you assume im gay because I support gay rights, that is a very juvenile assessment on your part ma'am. As they say "You dont know me from Adam". Futhermore dont give me no speech about fighting for black equal rights, when black on black crime, high unemployment, etc are still issues most of us are fighting everyday away from the spotlight, unlike people like yourself talk a good game, but are only in it to seek praise and attention instead of solving the problems.
I remember the reaction of SOME gay activists, and they like yourself were very bitter because of the outcome of the prop 8 vote. I said then, as I say now they did a very bad job in reaching out to minorities, even gay minorities, and they had nobody but the blame but themselves on that failure.
Again, people like yourself paint an entire group with a very broad brush. Gays are people in case you forgot, and they have flaws like anyone else. So there are some who are racist, criminals, drug addicts, etc.
But that doesnt give you room to dislike an entire group of people because of few.
If you cant see the obvious comparisons between the LGBT movement of today and the civil rights movement for blacks in the last century, then that is your problem. Of course as I said in an earlier post, the movements happened for different reasons, but the goal is the same, equal treatment in society. This is the part I think you have a problem with, you want to continue to deny the rights of people who are LGBT. You're mad because you think they are getting the attention you seek for your own cause.
Last edited by sleepless in Bham; 05-18-2013 at 08:45 AM..
Sure they are. They are discriminated against for something that for all we know cannot be changed, just like the color of one's skin. Or, if you want to be 100% accurate, blacks can change the color of their skin but they shouldn't have to, be asked or expected to. Hell, the thought shouldn't even cross their mind. Nor should homosexuals ever be discriminated against on the basis of something they cannot (or at least should not) be asked to change. Unless you can present some solid evidence to show that gay marriage or adoption is harmful, to compete with all the evidence that neither of them are harmful, there is just as much reason to oppose gay rights as there are to oppose the rights of African Americans (i.e., NO reason at all).
No they are not the same, and never will be the same. And you're entire post in invalidated by you stupid example of a black person changing their skin color. It's the dumbest argument ever and you should feel stupid for going there. A. I know a black person who's skin color changed like Michael Jackson's, and guess what lame, they're still black!! B. Homosexuals fighting for their rights should stand on their own two feet instead of leeching off the black civil rights movement. All your other lgbt blather is for the political arena where it belongs. Make no mistake, Black Americans do not want to be compared to the sexual immorality and perversion of homosexuals. We surely don't want to be associated with political leeches who are also racist and condescending. I never said gay marriage harmed me, so don't put assumptions up. Stand on your own two feet and fight your own battles in your own community and stop leeching off black civil rights movement.
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Bravo!
