Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I have gone through the same process you are going through, Kathryn. And not just with family members but with friends.
There finally came a time when I realized that for both the narcissistic and bipolar people in my life (diagnosed, not my supposition about their diagnoses) I was more or less a "prop."
Because I felt a responsibility for helping them through their manic phases ( after all, I kept reminding myself they can be caring, interesting, engaging people when "maintaining" - and they relied on me to help them get back to a "safe place" emotionally) - I allowed myself to essentially become their excuse not to work on their own issues. After all, no matter how outrageous the behavior, there was someone else around to make them feel better about themselves, to justify their behaviors by overlooking them, soothing them, re-framing their experiences.
But I realized after a particularly exhausting and ugly situation with my mother that I was not someone "treasured" and respected . . . I was just a prop. She could have been talking/raging at the wall but the wall can't suffer and that was part of her modus operandi - someone has to pay a price for her inability to cope. And if I didn't give her what she wanted (demanded!) - where was the concern for ME? The concern was surface, shallow and superficial and only in regard to matters that also affected her.
I know this is probably too cryptic as I am not able to fully explain the types of things that occurred (it would take a novel). These folks can be very entertaining and engaging . . . but it is all their own show, their own stage production and the others around them are just their audience, their minions, their support . . . their props of normalcy.
When a person has a mental health diagnosis, there is personal responsibility to be in therapy, to learn self monitoring, to stay on meds, to work at dealing with life, at personal relationships . . . and to find ways to self-soothe, to navigate in society. It can't all be on the rest of us and we aren't helping when we become the punching bag for their blame shifting, gas lighting, splitting, etc. But that is what so often folks are seeking - someone to demonize so they can free themselves of responsibility and make it "all about you."
So I learned and I no longer would allow the intrusive behaviors, the totally wacked out accusations, the blame-shifting. The good times (often when they were on a high) were not worth the dark times.
I have distanced myself from all family members and friends with mental health issues (after all, when people are 60 and older, I think we can assume, things are not going to "change"). And the interesting thing is, as I pulled away, I could see things shifting towards each of these folk finding someone else to "feed off" and to act as their "prop."
It's one thing in dealing with folks who are willing to be compliant, to self monitor, to listen to others who care about them who can say "time out - you seem to be cycling" or "have you discussed this with your therapist?" and it's another thing when folks are in denial and refuse to take responsibility for their own behaviors and the impact they have on others. When it crosses the line and people are non compliant and life becomes a continual roller coaster (and others get targeted, unfairly and in unkind ways) . . . it isn't as though being a "prop" in this drama is helping ANYONE.
Loving doesn't mean having to "accept it all" . . .sometimes, love means having to step aside so others are put in the position to more responsibly deal with themselves. Or not! But we have to give them the opportunity to do that -- and without tearing our lives down during the process.
I have gone through the same process you are going through, Kathryn. And not just with family members but with friends.
There finally came a time when I realized that for both the narcissistic and bipolar people in my life (diagnosed, not my supposition about their diagnoses) I was more or less a "prop."
Because I felt a responsibility for helping them through their manic phases ( after all, I kept reminding myself they can be caring, interesting, engaging people when "maintaining" - and they relied on me to help them get back to a "safe place" emotionally) - I allowed myself to essentially become their excuse not to work on their own issues. After all, no matter how outrageous the behavior, there was someone else around to make them feel better about themselves, to justify their behaviors by overlooking them, soothing them, re-framing their experiences.
But I realized after a particularly exhausting and ugly situation with my mother that I was not someone "treasured" and respected . . . I was just a prop. She could have been talking/raging at the wall but the wall can't suffer and that was part of her modus operandi - someone has to pay a price for her inability to cope. And if I didn't give her what she wanted (demanded!) - where was the concern for ME? The concern was surface, shallow and superficial and only in regard to matters that also affected her.
I know this is probably too cryptic as I am not able to fully explain the types of things that occurred (it would take a novel). These folks can be very entertaining and engaging . . . but it is all their own show, their own stage production and the others around them are just their audience, their minions, their support . . . their props of normalcy.
When a person has a mental health diagnosis, there is personal responsibility to be in therapy, to learn self monitoring, to stay on meds, to work at dealing with life, at personal relationships . . . and to find ways to self-soothe, to navigate in society. It can't all be on the rest of us and we aren't helping when we become the punching bag for their blame shifting, gas lighting, splitting, etc. But that is what so often folks are seeking - someone to demonize so they can free themselves of responsibility and make it "all about you."
So I learned and I no longer would allow the intrusive behaviors, the totally wacked out accusations, the blame-shifting. The good times (often when they were on a high) were not worth the dark times.
I have distanced myself from all family members and friends with mental health issues (after all, when people are 60 and older, I think we can assume, things are not going to "change"). And the interesting thing is, as I pulled away, I could see things shifting towards each of these folk finding someone else to "feed off" and to act as their "prop."
It's one thing in dealing with folks who are willing to be compliant, to self monitor, to listen to others who care about them who can say "time out - you seem to be cycling" or "have you discussed this with your therapist?" and it's another thing when folks are in denial and refuse to take responsibility for their own behaviors and the impact they have on others. When it crosses the line and people are non compliant and life becomes a continual roller coaster (and others get targeted, unfairly and in unkind ways) . . . it isn't as though being a "prop" in this drama is helping ANYONE.
Loving doesn't mean having to "accept it all" . . .sometimes, love means having to step aside so others are put in the position to more responsibly deal with themselves. Or not! But we have to give them the opportunity to do that -- and without tearing our lives down during the process.
I have gone through the same process you are going through, Kathryn. And not just with family members but with friends.
There finally came a time when I realized that for both the narcissistic and bipolar people in my life (diagnosed, not my supposition about their diagnoses) I was more or less a "prop."
Because I felt a responsibility for helping them through their manic phases ( after all, I kept reminding myself they can be caring, interesting, engaging people when "maintaining" - and they relied on me to help them get back to a "safe place" emotionally) - I allowed myself to essentially become their excuse not to work on their own issues. After all, no matter how outrageous the behavior, there was someone else around to make them feel better about themselves, to justify their behaviors by overlooking them, soothing them, re-framing their experiences.
But I realized after a particularly exhausting and ugly situation with my mother that I was not someone "treasured" and respected . . . I was just a prop. She could have been talking/raging at the wall but the wall can't suffer and that was part of her modus operandi - someone has to pay a price for her inability to cope. And if I didn't give her what she wanted (demanded!) - where was the concern for ME? The concern was surface, shallow and superficial and only in regard to matters that also affected her.
I know this is probably too cryptic as I am not able to fully explain the types of things that occurred (it would take a novel). These folks can be very entertaining and engaging . . . but it is all their own show, their own stage production and the others around them are just their audience, their minions, their support . . . their props of normalcy.
When a person has a mental health diagnosis, there is personal responsibility to be in therapy, to learn self monitoring, to stay on meds, to work at dealing with life, at personal relationships . . . and to find ways to self-soothe, to navigate in society. It can't all be on the rest of us and we aren't helping when we become the punching bag for their blame shifting, gas lighting, splitting, etc. But that is what so often folks are seeking - someone to demonize so they can free themselves of responsibility and make it "all about you."
So I learned and I no longer would allow the intrusive behaviors, the totally wacked out accusations, the blame-shifting. The good times (often when they were on a high) were not worth the dark times.
I have distanced myself from all family members and friends with mental health issues (after all, when people are 60 and older, I think we can assume, things are not going to "change"). And the interesting thing is, as I pulled away, I could see things shifting towards each of these folk finding someone else to "feed off" and to act as their "prop."
It's one thing in dealing with folks who are willing to be compliant, to self monitor, to listen to others who care about them who can say "time out - you seem to be cycling" or "have you discussed this with your therapist?" and it's another thing when folks are in denial and refuse to take responsibility for their own behaviors and the impact they have on others. When it crosses the line and people are non compliant and life becomes a continual roller coaster (and others get targeted, unfairly and in unkind ways) . . . it isn't as though being a "prop" in this drama is helping ANYONE.
Loving doesn't mean having to "accept it all" . . .sometimes, love means having to step aside so others are put in the position to more responsibly deal with themselves. Or not! But we have to give them the opportunity to do that -- and without tearing our lives down during the process.
This is a great post, and the part I bolded resonates specifically with me regarding my friend.
About two years ago my brother had a complete breakdown and was subsequently diagnosed as bipolar/schizophrenic. He was hospitalized and is currently in a very closely monitored treatment plan - and doing very well. Now that his meds are in better control, and he has submitted to a treatment plan and determined NOT to mix alcohol or street drugs with the meds, he is doing GREAT. He has taken full responsibility for his treatment and is doing so well that he is now a counselor to other mentally ill people in the program.
His treatment and attitude about it really has highlighted to me that many mentally ill adults can take full responsibility for their treatment, and their relationships. My friend, who is very intelligent as well as well educated and well read, definitely falls into this category. Unfortunately, she chooses to go off her meds and consider herself "cured by God." Not that I don't believe God can cure people, but it's obvious from her demeanor that He hasn't cured her. Personally, and this is just my own belief, but I believe that God expects us to handle our own health care responsibly.
But aren't there those people who cannot monitor themselves and take their meds and do what is good for them? I have a friend that is just not capable of doing what she needs to do, and part of her illness is like your friend, she thinks she is healed.
My sister would demonstrate this all the time: she would go off the deep end, we would get her committed for observation for 30 days, she would be medicated and clean up her act, cooperate with the doctors and get released only to stop taking her meds because she thought they were killing her. I don't know if I already shared this, but one time after a long spell of chaos I went to see her in the hospital during her 30 day clean up. She looked at me and said quietly and puzzled, "You look so old, how long have I been like this?" I told her it had been about 30 years and she just looked shocked sitting there quietly.
Only after she was finally committed losing her independence and then released to a group home has she stopped the cycle. But if she were not controlled against her will it would be the same chaos. So the question goes back to responsibility, who is to care for those who cannot care for themselves? It's so hard.
But aren't there those people who cannot monitor themselves and take their meds and do what is good for them? I have a friend that is just not capable of doing what she needs to do, and part of her illness is like your friend, she thinks she is healed.
My sister would demonstrate this all the time: she would go off the deep end, we would get her committed for observation for 30 days, she would be medicated and clean up her act, cooperate with the doctors and get released only to stop taking her meds because she thought they were killing her. I don't know if I already shared this, but one time after a long spell of chaos I went to see her in the hospital during her 30 day clean up. She looked at me and said quietly and puzzled, "You look so old, how long have I been like this?" I told her it had been about 30 years and she just looked shocked sitting there quietly.
Only after she was finally committed losing her independence and then released to a group home has she stopped the cycle. But if she were not controlled against her will it would be the same chaos. So the question goes back to responsibility, who is to care for those who cannot care for themselves? It's so hard.
You are so correct on all of this. It's a really sad situation.
I have gone through the same process you are going through, Kathryn. And not just with family members but with friends.
There finally came a time when I realized that for both the narcissistic and bipolar people in my life (diagnosed, not my supposition about their diagnoses) I was more or less a "prop."
Because I felt a responsibility for helping them through their manic phases ( after all, I kept reminding myself they can be caring, interesting, engaging people when "maintaining" - and they relied on me to help them get back to a "safe place" emotionally) - I allowed myself to essentially become their excuse not to work on their own issues. After all, no matter how outrageous the behavior, there was someone else around to make them feel better about themselves, to justify their behaviors by overlooking them, soothing them, re-framing their experiences.
But I realized after a particularly exhausting and ugly situation with my mother that I was not someone "treasured" and respected . . . I was just a prop. She could have been talking/raging at the wall but the wall can't suffer and that was part of her modus operandi - someone has to pay a price for her inability to cope. And if I didn't give her what she wanted (demanded!) - where was the concern for ME? The concern was surface, shallow and superficial and only in regard to matters that also affected her.
I know this is probably too cryptic as I am not able to fully explain the types of things that occurred (it would take a novel). These folks can be very entertaining and engaging . . . but it is all their own show, their own stage production and the others around them are just their audience, their minions, their support . . . their props of normalcy.
When a person has a mental health diagnosis, there is personal responsibility to be in therapy, to learn self monitoring, to stay on meds, to work at dealing with life, at personal relationships . . . and to find ways to self-soothe, to navigate in society. It can't all be on the rest of us and we aren't helping when we become the punching bag for their blame shifting, gas lighting, splitting, etc. But that is what so often folks are seeking - someone to demonize so they can free themselves of responsibility and make it "all about you."
So I learned and I no longer would allow the intrusive behaviors, the totally wacked out accusations, the blame-shifting. The good times (often when they were on a high) were not worth the dark times.
I have distanced myself from all family members and friends with mental health issues (after all, when people are 60 and older, I think we can assume, things are not going to "change"). And the interesting thing is, as I pulled away, I could see things shifting towards each of these folk finding someone else to "feed off" and to act as their "prop."
It's one thing in dealing with folks who are willing to be compliant, to self monitor, to listen to others who care about them who can say "time out - you seem to be cycling" or "have you discussed this with your therapist?" and it's another thing when folks are in denial and refuse to take responsibility for their own behaviors and the impact they have on others. When it crosses the line and people are non compliant and life becomes a continual roller coaster (and others get targeted, unfairly and in unkind ways) . . . it isn't as though being a "prop" in this drama is helping ANYONE.
Loving doesn't mean having to "accept it all" . . .sometimes, love means having to step aside so others are put in the position to more responsibly deal with themselves. Or not! But we have to give them the opportunity to do that -- and without tearing our lives down during the process.
Great post! You, too, are a saint for putting up with such for so long!
You cannot be in charge of someone else life...specially someone who is not related to you by you. If it's a mother, a husband, a wife, a son...I get it...but a friend?
Where are her parents? Relatives? They need to take care of her on the first place...not you.
I understand friendship and love but true love often needs to tell people the truth...some people will accept their issues...others won't...it's up to them to have the humility and wisdom to accept the help.
If not...let them be. And if you are a spiritual person: pray for them!
But if you involve in your issues you will get hurt and perhaps even scorned as a person who is intrusive.
I wonder why it's ok to cut off an unmedicated friend who causes drama but not an unmedicated family member who causes drama. Things that make you say hmmmm
I wonder why some people are snarky just for snarkiness' sake. Especially regarding a painful situation in which someone has shared how they have gone above and beyond for a friend with a mental illness that results in being unkind to this kind poster.
You cannot be in charge of someone else life...specially someone who is not related to you by you. If it's a mother, a husband, a wife, a son...I get it...but a friend?
Where are her parents? Relatives? They need to take care of her on the first place...not you.
I understand friendship and love but true love often needs to tell people the truth...some people will accept their issues...others won't...it's up to them to have the humility and wisdom to accept the help.
If not...let them be. And if you are a spiritual person: pray for them!
But if you involve in your issues you will get hurt and perhaps even scorned as a person who is intrusive.
"Compassionate distance"
Very true.
Her parents are deceased. Her husband has apparently divorced her. Her brothers have distanced themselves. She's basically alone.
It's pathetic.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
