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Ok, looks like some of you know more about these people than I do, so I might as well ask my question here.
I have observed this for years. Why are poor people the pickiest eaters out there? Common sense tells me if your resources are limited wouldn't you be happy with anything?
A couple weeks ago, we took the sisters out to lunch. Sister 1 ordered a typical chicken fingers with french fries meal. This was an honest to god restaurant, by the way, and not a fast food joint. Sister 2 was going to order the same thing as 1 when my boyfriend suggested she tried something else. So, she chose some kind if burger. When they brought it out, she looked at it and yelled out EWWWWW WHAT IS THAT WHAT IS THAT? Everyone in the restaurant looked over at us. Well, it was just cheese. She went on to making faces at it started acting like she was about to vomit. I asked the waitress to wrap it up for me and she went ahead and ordered chicken fingers. And that was 100% American food, too.
That's just 1 example out of many. I used to work for habitat for humanity and I observed this many times over. Very poor people getting grossed out by anything other than french fries, pizza, or cheeseburger. Shouldn't they take every opportunity to try out something new, especially when they're not paying for it?
I'm going to be frank - the entire time I've read and responded to this thread I've been wondering why you are not getting most people's advice. It was almost like you enjoyed dwelling on their misery. I'm not saying you do - but that perception has been building. But this last post of yours really spins this whole thread in a different direction for me.
How does one go from being so concerned about the sister and her welfare to being very condescending about poor people and mocking them? This isn't to minimize some of the side conversations people have been having on this thread about the trappings of poverty mentality (valid discussion). It's just your presentation of her went from concern to ridicule.
If the incident you relayed is true (I have doubts to the veracity of it or at least it not being an exaggeration about her loudness and behavior) there is now a very clear disconnect between how you started to describe your worries for this person's welfare and only wanting the best to now making fun of them and mocking them.
I had some doubts about the truth to your first post to be honest as it seemed a little too dramatic and full of so many details that were unrelated to the question, but I took you at face value and assumed you were just struggling with a myriad of issues. Now with this last post I'm wondering if any of this is true.
If it is true, take a look at your post again that I quoted and look at your tone and mocking of her. Ask yourself if maybe you really have her best intentions in your mind and heart. It certainly doesn't read that way anymore. All the more reason to step away from her and her family.
God, you people make me so depress... The most depressing part is you're right.
I just came home from work today (spent 12 hours at work today) and got word. It will take $2k to fix their car. They've decided to sell it to a junk yard for $300.
They just spent $1500 to buy that car just 3 months ago, too. From a distance, it seems to me like being poor means one bad thing after another keeps happening. They don't ever seem to get a break.
Did they pay for the car with cash? Or was it financed?
What's wrong with their car? Hate to ask this, but have you independently verified anything they're telling you? As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, these people are predators. Do not take anything they tell you at face value.
Being poor DOES suck. You DO generally have to buy cheap stuff - and therefore you buy it more often. But a person can get out of poverty. I got out of it. Several of my nieces got out of it. It's possible - but it's hard and it requires not one, but one after the other good choices, difficult choices, choices that make one's life even MORE austere for the time being.
I work with an organization that teaches women living in poverty white collar job skills (office skills, computer skills, basic accounting, telephone skills, etc). We have about a 50 percent success rate (fifty percent of the graduates are working full time a year later) - BUT we don't take every applicant. We interview each applicant very carefully. Every woman in the program has to be referred to us and we check references regarding her work ethic, integrity, etc. We have very strict attendance policies and the classes are 12 weeks long. NO EXCUSES for tardiness or skipping classes - if you miss three classes you have to start the course over.
Part of the teachers' training consists of going through this course - Bridges Out of Poverty. I suggest that you print this off and read it. It gives an excellent overview of the different mindsets and values of each social class. Also - google "the hidden rules of social classes."
I have observed this for years. Why are poor people the pickiest eaters out there? Common sense tells me if your resources are limited wouldn't you be happy with anything?
A couple weeks ago, we took the sisters out to lunch. Sister 1 ordered a typical chicken fingers with french fries meal. This was an honest to god restaurant, by the way, and not a fast food joint. Sister 2 was going to order the same thing as 1 when my boyfriend suggested she tried something else. So, she chose some kind if burger. When they brought it out, she looked at it and yelled out EWWWWW WHAT IS THAT WHAT IS THAT? Everyone in the restaurant looked over at us. Well, it was just cheese. She went on to making faces at it started acting like she was about to vomit. I asked the waitress to wrap it up for me and she went ahead and ordered chicken fingers. And that was 100% American food, too.
That's just 1 example out of many. I used to work for habitat for humanity and I observed this many times over. Very poor people getting grossed out by anything other than french fries, pizza, or cheeseburger. Shouldn't they take every opportunity to try out something new, especially when they're not paying for it?
Actually, there is some research behind this. If you grew up eating a diet that has been severely restricted by your families means, then you tend to prefer cheap, low quality foods. I bet her mother looked at a 10 pound bag of chicken nuggets for $3.99 and saw the most affordable protein she could buy. When the burger came with pepperjack cheese and fresh red onions and tomato on it, it was just too exotic, too overstimulating for her. It also made her feel inferior, so she made a scene as if the restaurant did something wrong.
Anyhow, there is a book called "Boundaries" by Henry Cloud. See past the religious bent of the book and read it as it has good advice.
Haha. Sorry. I do know these people with the POOR mentality... They are neverhappy with anything. It's just never enough.
I have known people who have been truly poor as opposed to having a poor mentality and it is completely different. For example, people who have lived through The Great Depression (1930s), when people could literally starve to death in America, are truly thankful and happy with anything and everything that they had. Spoiled milk? An excellent spread for sandwiches or for baking. A fifty pound bag of potatoes could be bought, from a farmer, for the same cost as a few potatoes in the grocery store and could be used in hundreds of ways. Etc. Etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goodmockingbird
Eyes forward and square your hindquarters away, Young Man.
Auntie Mockingbird is going to tell you some things you do not want to hear, but desperately need to hear.
I was a social worker for over decade. I know from whence I speak.
Let's get one thing clear. About this whole "getting a break" notion:
"A break" is what you get when you have made -- and carried through -- thousands, nay! tens of thousands! of good decisions. Over and over, day after day, morning noon and night. Ten thousand days of working late just to tidy things up. Ten thousand days of prudently buying what one can reasonably afford. Ten thousand times hoisting yourself out of bed when the alarm goes off, and heading in to work. And a hundred thousand times of pondering 'is this right, reasonable, and prudent' before doing any, any, any thing in the world from what temperature to launder your clothes at, to buying a home with a mortgage!
In short, we earn our breaks in the world. We earn them one foot in front of the other, one right decision after another. We earn them every time we fix something instead of buy a new one. Each time we make it into work when we would prefer to lollygag in bed.
Young Man, I am sure you are extremely intelligent, hard working, and ethical.
What you are not is the opposite of those qualities. Thus, you do not recognize them in others.
You are as vulnerable as a blind, wounded, bleeding gazelle on the Serengeti plain.
You are prey. Ripe for exploitation. You are a walking ATM. The gift that keeps on giving.
You are as vulnerable as vulnerable gets. You may think 'vulnerable' is some little old lady hobbling down the street, handbag on her frail arm, through a known high crime ghetto. But that little old lady has likely been down the road enough days of her life to know to tuck a handgun into her bra.
What does 'vulnerable' look like? YOU are what vulnerable looks like!
Because you still think that this hot mess of a Dr Phil-quality dysfunctional predator farm of a 'family' "Just can't get a break"!
Luck has nothing to do with it. Decision-making -- bad decision-making -- has everything to do with it.
You are too soft hearted for your own good. And too naive.
Bluntly stated: You must cut off all contact with these parasites. Or you will get sucked into their destructive lives of drama, never to return to productive humankind. They will use you until they have sucked you dry, and can use you no more.
They will use you until you are broke and in jail yourself. How, you may ask, could they get such a nice guy broke and in jail? Simple: Identity theft.
When -- long months from now -- you finally see the light of day and quit handing out money... they'll already have a plan in place to get their hands on your money, your credit, your identity itself. Good luck with that.
If your BF is fine and supportive of you cutting his family completely out of your life, then BF is wise.
If BF keeps drawing you into contact with these predators... then BF is part of the problem.
Think long and hard. You've let them weasel their way altogether too far into your personal life already. And you are not street smart. You may be the smartest, most ethical person in the world. One I would be honored to call a friend, coworker or family member. But you are not street smart. You're wet behind the ears.
Cut these predators off cold. Period.
Grow a backbone. Make the hard decisions. Save yourself... or don't.
I'm going to be frank - the entire time I've read and responded to this thread I've been wondering why you are not getting most people's advice. It was almost like you enjoyed dwelling on their misery. I'm not saying you do - but that perception has been building. But this last post of yours really spins this whole thread in a different direction for me.
How does one go from being so concerned about the sister and her welfare to being very condescending about poor people and mocking them? This isn't to minimize some of the side conversations people have been having on this thread about the trappings of poverty mentality (valid discussion). It's just your presentation of her went from concern to ridicule.
If the incident you relayed is true (I have doubts to the veracity of it or at least it not being an exaggeration about her loudness and behavior) there is now a very clear disconnect between how you started to describe your worries for this person's welfare and only wanting the best to now making fun of them and mocking them.
I had some doubts about the truth to your first post to be honest as it seemed a little too dramatic and full of so many details that were unrelated to the question, but I took you at face value and assumed you were just struggling with a myriad of issues. Now with this last post I'm wondering if any of this is true.
If it is true, take a look at your post again that I quoted and look at your tone and mocking of her. Ask yourself if maybe you really have her best intentions in your mind and heart. It certainly doesn't read that way anymore. All the more reason to step away from her and her family.
I'm sorry you feel this way. You're not the first to doubt about this. Like I said before, I used to work for habitat for humanity. I've seen worse.
My observation about the food thing wasn't meant to be condescending. It was just an observation that I've seen over and over for years. This is why I've learned not to offer certain people to try new foods. I'm an east Asian American, so sometimes I have stuff that aren't chicken nuggets and french fries in my frige.
Did they pay for the car with cash? Or was it financed?
What's wrong with their car? Hate to ask this, but have you independently verified anything they're telling you? As someone pointed out earlier in the thread, these people are predators. Do not take anything they tell you at face value.
Being poor DOES suck. You DO generally have to buy cheap stuff - and therefore you buy it more often. But a person can get out of poverty. I got out of it. Several of my nieces got out of it. It's possible - but it's hard and it requires not one, but one after the other good choices, difficult choices, choices that make one's life even MORE austere for the time being.
I work with an organization that teaches women living in poverty white collar job skills (office skills, computer skills, basic accounting, telephone skills, etc). We have about a 50 percent success rate (fifty percent of the graduates are working full time a year later) - BUT we don't take every applicant. We interview each applicant very carefully. Every woman in the program has to be referred to us and we check references regarding her work ethic, integrity, etc. We have very strict attendance policies and the classes are 12 weeks long. NO EXCUSES for tardiness or skipping classes - if you miss three classes you have to start the course over.
Part of the teachers' training consists of going through this course - Bridges Out of Poverty. I suggest that you print this off and read it. It gives an excellent overview of the different mindsets and values of each social class. Also - google "the hidden rules of social classes."
Ruby Payne is highly controversial and has lots of detractors. Many of her premises have been debunked. Not saying not to read her but take it with a grain of salt. She has a very vocal set of supporters because there is SOME truth in her stuff but she also deals in overly simplistic stereotyping too often.
Look, this thread is turning into a bunch of mean spirited poor bashing IMO, and I'm not sure that's productive.
This girl is from a highly dysfunctional family full of violence, alcoholism, repressive hypocritical applications of "Christianity", etc. Those exist at all class levels. Those kids are messed up at all class levels.
The only difference between her and a middle class girl in the same type of family is that she is less likely to end up living off her parents and getting wasted at frat parties. She doesn't have that option to act out her issues.
This girl has a boyfriend who loves her and is willing to work hard to provide so she thinks she can be like her brother, who is with YOU. She thinks can have a happy relationship with her baby and her boyfriend and it will all be better because he will take care of her. She'll have love and security. She is wrong.
You can't save her.
Last edited by Tinawina; 08-05-2015 at 09:16 AM..
Reason: Because Ruby Bridges desegregated her elementary school and Ruby Payne is a researcher. LOL. Thanks Kathryn!
Thank you all for your advices. You are absolutely right. I'll have a talk with my bf tonight.
Good. But please prepare yourself for potential fallout.
Square away in your own mind where you draw the line. Do you have the intestinal fortitude to completely, personally halt all contact with his siblings and hold your ground on that decision?
If so, then good for you. You've grown a backbone.
That may seem like the "hardest" decision to make, and to stick with. But in truth it will prove to be the cleanest, simplest, and -- ultimately -- easiest one to make your peace and stand your ground with.
Do your homework first:
* Research and retain a reputable credit monitoring and identity theft protection resource.
* Secure your personal information papers and financial records off site, such as in a safe deposit box.
* Talk with a local 24 hour locksmith and make sure that you could have one on call to come and secure your place (change locks / combinations) on short notice.
* Research and line up an accredited family counsellor for you and BF to counsel with regarding your / his / your joint relationships (or lack thereof) with his family.
Those things done, you can present your observations and decisions to your BF from a position of calm strength. You are protecting yourself. He is free to have as much or as little to do with his siblings and parents as he chooses.
You draw your lines around yourself. No more and no less.
Then stand your ground.
This is not about distancing yourself from "poor people". This is about protecting yourself from exploitation by people who do not respect you, and who repeatedly, consistently make destructive and self destructive choices in life.
If, on the other hand, you're going to have some compassionate "Let's talk about this and maybe think of how to deal with your family, and maybe kind of, I dunno, sort of not, like, give them money and take them places, and maybe they should take care of themselves better, and, uh, maybe we can talk some sense to them and fix them a better way..."...
... Welcome to Hell.
Clean and straightforward, proactive and responsible assertion of your rights to protect yourself...
Or the alternative. A lifetime of predation and exploitation.
Ruby Bridges is highly controversial and has lots of detractors. Many of her premises have been debunked. Not saying not to read her but take it with a grain of salt. She has a very vocal set of supporters because there is SOME truth in her stuff but she also deals in overly simplistic stereotyping too often.
Look, this thread is turning into a bunch of mean spirited poor bashing IMO, and I'm not sure that's productive.
This girl is from a highly dysfunctional family full of violence, alcoholism, repressive hypocritical applications of "Christianity", etc. Those exist at all class levels. Those kids are messed up at all class levels.
The only difference between her and a middle class girl in the same type of family is that she is less likely to end up living off her parents and getting wasted at frat parties. She doesn't have that option to act out her issues.
This girl has a boyfriend who loves her and is willing to work hard to provide so she thinks she can be like her brother, who is with YOU. She thinks can have a happy relationship with her baby and her boyfriend and it will all be better because he will take care of her. She'll have love and security. She is wrong.
You can't save her.
Don't get too hung up on the "Ruby Bridges" (Dr Ruby Payne?) thing. Like even you said, there is some truth to her stuff.
In order to work effectively with the program I work with, we had to go through several types of training. The "Bridges out of Poverty" series was just one step of that training.
My point is that it helps a LOT to try to get into the mindset of others we are trying to help. What I found helpful about the Bridges out of Poverty training is that it clearly shows that different social classes IN GENERAL (of course there are exceptions) have some differing values because they have different needs and challenges. One of the most interesting parts of the training consisted of questions asking us how well we would survive in a low income situation for a month. It was very eye opening. If you don't have a job, don't have a car, don't have enough money for bills, (fill in the blank) would you know how to go about feeding your family, getting medical treatment, etc?
I lived among the very poor, in a ghetto basically, dirt poor myself, for several years. I saw these behaviors and values first hand. I know the sense of helplessness and frustration and "living for the moment" because the future seems so helplessly bleak. I do not blame people who are stuck in this rut or assume that it's because of their "character flaws." I think it's all based on a lack of hope and a sense of personal insecurity and lack of self worth.
It IS possible to break this self destructive cycle but the person has to have a lot of inner strength and discipline. Most importantly, they have to have HOPE. They have to know that it is possible to build a different life. They need role models.
They do NOT need enablers. There's a big difference. The OP has to get his head around those differences.
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