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......... As an adult she made an effort to see them as little as possible. Each time she saw them on holidays she left the event depressed because they were so cold........
It's perfectly all right if she doesn't want to travel to see him. He's a person she has no relationship with.
Don't even take societal pressure into consideration. She should not have to do it because it is "the right thing to do".
If she thinks she might possibly have regrets later if she doesn't go, then maybe she should go. But she should not expect any last second change of heart in her father. If he has been cold and indifferent to her for all of her life, that is what she will get from him in the end.
Veering wildly off topic, people who want family to support them at end of life maybe ought to treat family members better.
Being a sperm donor, even if married to your mother, does not make him a father. Some of us know that from experience.
You have no idea of the amount of care any father is capable of - no matter how warm or cold he appears to be.
You have no idea what acts of love and caring THIS FATHER has performed in the past for his child (the OP's wife may not even be aware); the fact that he may have done it with a cold exterior doesn't lessen the fact that he did it. Nor does a cold exterior preclude a warm heart
You only have the report of the OP that he is cold. That does not make him an absentee father, an uncaring father, nor a bad father. You have no idea what is in the heart and mind of this father.
Maybe the OP is incapable of perceiving the warmth that exists and dismisses it because it is not on the level they think it should be.
"Sperm Doner", that's clever. No, not really. It is just another hackneyed phrase used by internet people to describe people they do not know - people they cannot judge because they do not have ANY objective information.
I am sorry for you if your father was cold toward you, but again... YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS MAN. DO NOT THINK IT IS YOUR PLACE TO JUDGE HIM. DO NOT THINK IT IS YOUR PLACE TO SUGGEST THAT THE CHILD IGNORE THE DEATH OF HER FATHER. YOUR "EXPERIENCE" HAS NO PLACE IN THIS FAMILY AFFAIR.
To the OP, again, what will you or your wife lose by saying goodbye?
Last edited by blktoptrvl; 01-10-2017 at 10:40 AM..
I hadn't seen my abusive alcoholic father for three years until he was in the hospital and in critical condition after cardiac bypass surgery at 48. He saw me and asked "What are you doing here?" We had an empty shallow conversation and he died a few days later. He and my mother were separated at the time and she donated his body to medical science. Do I regret going to see him? Yes. It was a waste of time.
Fast forward about 12 years when it was my mother's turn from breast cancer. She and I had never had a good relationship because for years I was her whipping post during one of her drunk tirades. I hated her. My brother called out of the blue and told me that she was in the hospital and wanted to see me. I hadn't seen her or talked to her for three or more years. I was working in health care at the time and knew that she didn't have long to live when I saw her. I tried to ask her about the estate issues because I knew I'd be the one cleaning up that mess, and I was. She called my brother and told him that "I was trying to take everything." Never mind that she raised a loser son that lived off of her and couldn't break those apron strings. I just said fine. Good riddance. Well not quite. My brother had her transferred to the big box hospital where I worked so I got the pleasure of having to see her almost every day I worked. I worked a lot on the oncology floor. I worked nights at the time and stayed for morning rounds after me shift and asked her MD for a DNR order. He asked if my brother agreed and I lied and said yes. She died about a week later, only my brother neglected to call me and tell me. I showed up for work and one of the nurses called down to the department and said "I'm sorry about your mother." Ah what? I went to her room and a priest showed up. Really? I didn't need one. I was fine with it. I looked at her remains without shedding a tear. Actually it was a relief that she was finally out of my life. Did I regret seeing her before she died? YES! It was a nightmare. Just as it was in my childhood.
I had much trepidation about taking on my childhood house and rehabbing that neglected run down dwelling, but my loser brother couldn't buy it, and as predicted, I was the one left cleaning up the mess. Just as it was in my childhood. My husband and I cleaned it up, rehabbed it, and rented it out for over 20 years now. It doesn't hold the demons it used to, but to be honest, it will be a relief having it out of my life in the near future. My mother is still there, only out in the yard by the big tree where I dumped her ashes. I wanted to flush her down the toilet, but thought that was a safer option.
You have no idea of the amount of care any father is capable of - no matter how warm or cold he appears to be.
You have no idea what acts of love and caring THIS FATHER has performed in the past for his child (the OP's wife may not even be aware); the fact that he may have done it with a cold exterior doesn't lessen the fact that he did it. Nor does a cold exterior preclude a warm heart
You only have the report of the OP that he is cold. That does not make him an absentee father, an uncaring father, nor a bad father. You have no idea what is in the heart and mind of this father.
Maybe the OP is incapable of perceiving the warmth that exists and dismisses it because it is not on the level they think it should be.
"Sperm Doner", that's clever. No, not really. It is just another hackneyed phrase used by internet people to describe people they do not know - people they cannot judge because they do not have ANY objective information.
I am sorry for you if your father was cold toward you, but again... YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS MAN. DO NOT THINK IT IS YOUR PLACE TO JUDGE HIM. DO NOT THINK IT IS YOUR PLACE TO SUGGEST THAT THE CHILD IGNORE THE DEATH OF HER FATHER. YOUR "EXPERIENCE" HAS NO PLACE IN THIS FAMILY AFFAIR.
To the OP, again, what will you or your wife lose by saying goodbye?
My parents were not cold or distant, but no. My stepfather died instantly in a car accident, while I was at work. My mother, who became demented in her later years, died suddenly when I was in Africa, a week before I was to visit her. My father died suddenly of a post-infection operation, while we were several thousand apart. The day after surgery, I spoke with him over the phone and he was recovering. and the prognosis was excellent. Less than a day later, he was dead.
So, it goes.
I forgot to add a father-in-law. He was in his mid-90s, when he died. He had 2 daughters and 2 grandchildren. It took from Christmas to mid-February for him to die in the hospital (in Denmark). We all took rotating turns (2 people at a time for 3 days) "visiting" him in the hospital. He was delirious and in great pain almost the entire time. There were few nurses in the hospital at night, and we watched him and cared for him as best we could. The doctors knew he was going to die almost from the start, but most of the family still hoped for a miracle. He was a fighter. In retrospect, we should have taken him home against orders and let him die where he wanted. May his soul rest in peace.
You have no idea of the amount of care any father is capable of - no matter how warm or cold he appears to be.
You have no idea what acts of love and caring THIS FATHER has performed in the past for his child (the OP's wife may not even be aware); the fact that he may have done it with a cold exterior doesn't lessen the fact that he did it. Nor does a cold exterior preclude a warm heart
You only have the report of the OP that he is cold. That does not make him an absentee father, an uncaring father, nor a bad father. You have no idea what is in the heart and mind of this father.
Maybe the OP is incapable of perceiving the warmth that exists and dismisses it because it is not on the level they think it should be.
"Sperm Doner", that's clever. No, not really. It is just another hackneyed phrase used by internet people to describe people they do not know - people they cannot judge because they do not have ANY objective information.
I am sorry for you if your father was cold toward you, but again... YOU DO NOT KNOW THIS MAN. DO NOT THINK IT IS YOUR PLACE TO JUDGE HIM. DO NOT THINK IT IS YOUR PLACE TO SUGGEST THAT THE CHILD IGNORE THE DEATH OF HER FATHER. YOUR "EXPERIENCE" HAS NO PLACE IN THIS FAMILY AFFAIR.
To the OP, again, what will you or your wife lose by saying goodbye?
If you had re-read what I wrote, I was clearly referring to my father. And I have all the ability in the world to judge him. The question was about how we felt or feel about not going to someone's death bed because they were cold. I described my experience, but thanks for the lecture and snarkism anyways.
My wife's parents were always cold to her (and me). As an adult she made an effort to see them as little as possible. Each time she saw them on holidays she left the event depressed because they were so cold.
She has not seen them for a few years after coming up with excuses around the holidays.
Now she has found out her father has weeks to live. The thought of doing the long drive up to their home 500 miles away and saying good bye, after he brought her so much pain by his coldness, scares her. (How to show emotion and say good bye to someone you had such a cold distant relationship with.)
Did you say good bye to your cold and distant immediate family before they died, if you knew they only had a short term to live? How about ex husbands or wives?
Tough question & topic in general.
I don't have a lot of time to get into whether being cold is akin to general personality traits (aloof, private, etc.) vs. things that could have soured the relationship. Maybe they resent her for something/s you are unaware of.
Heck it could be her marrying you that did for all you know. I have known people who cut their kids out of their estate for running away or marrying what they perceive as the wrong person.
But enough with speculation.
When people are dying, they sometimes get a much different perspective, and might be amenable to reconciliation.
Even if they are not going to be warm/fuzzy, they might be willing to soften. This can have many benefits for both them and your wife. The effort can also help her even if nothing has changed. She wont have to wonder what if, or what could have been.
Remember if she makes the effort, she did what she could and let the chips fall where they may. Not trying means there can never be another chance, which can cause the aforementioned.
BTW - No offense to you, but if you find you were the cause of their coldness, you might want to drive her, but let them be alone while you go to a pub and watch a favorite sport. Remember this is not about you (even though you want what is best for your wife). So if there is any chance you could cause tension, be big enough to support her without taking it personally. The parents might not have legitimate reasons for the way they feel, but that is not going to change in the coming weeks.
If you had re-read what I wrote, I was clearly referring to my father. And I have all the ability in the world to judge him. The question was about how we felt or feel about not going to someone's death bed because they were cold. I described my experience, but thanks for the lecture and snarkism anyways.
I addressed the OP's comments. You quoted my comment that there was nothing to lose in saying goodbye. I read your reply to my statement as a rebuff to my question/advice to the OP. If all you really wanted was to make a comment about your father being a "sperm doner," there was no need to reference my statement - you could have done so without quoting me.
At no time - then or now - did I read your reply as being directly about your father. Instead it seems to be a comment about the OP's family based on your relationship with your father.
If you really think your intent to criticize only your own father was clear, I suggest you are mistaken.
As for Snark? No, there was no snark in my post. Just straight forward disdain for your apparent comments about the OP's wife's father. Now if your comment was truly about your father and not about the OP's family, then you can excuse the disdain. Instead, I offer again - as I did before, sympathy for your situation with your father.
My wife's parents were always cold to her (and me). As an adult she made an effort to see them as little as possible. Each time she saw them on holidays she left the event depressed because they were so cold.
She has not seen them for a few years after coming up with excuses around the holidays.
Now she has found out her father has weeks to live. The thought of doing the long drive up to their home 500 miles away and saying good bye, after he brought her so much pain by his coldness, scares her. (How to show emotion and say good bye to someone you had such a cold distant relationship with.)
Did you say good bye to your cold and distant immediate family before they died, if you knew they only had a short term to live? How about ex husbands or wives?
People generally regret NOT saying goodbye to parents (short of something horrific such as father killed mother or parents beat kids and left physical scars, and sometimes even then).
I know of only ONE person who tried to bid his dying father goodbye and regretted it. And the guy had Alzheimers and lit into my friend for being a failure and a lousy son. I rather suspect that the Alzheimers had something to do with that, but the guy HAD been an a-hole pretty much his entire life, so who knows.
Some people just can't show emotion. Cold is not great, but full-on abuse is much worse. If it were me - and I did have a problematic (to put it mildly, in truth highly emotionally and physically abusive) mother - I would go say goodbye and have done with it. Then you will never wonder in later years what MIGHT have happened.
I didn't get that chance with my mother as she died of a heart attack, suddenly.
Your wife may or may not regret going. She will certainly regret NOT going.
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