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I've heard that some women see "ma'am" as a form of address that makes them sound old. To them, I ask two questions-1)What age would you be fine with/expect to be called "ma'am" (and how old would a woman look before you would use "ma'am" on her), and 2)How would you prefer to be addressed if not "ma'am," (and what degree of respect would you show to a woman too young for "ma'am")?
I've been called 'ma'am' since probably before I hit 21, although I looked more like 17. It was by employees who were equally young, kids I didn't know, and they didn't know how else to address me. Young people never use the term 'Miss', for some reason. But I was too young to take it personally.
But I think the term 'lady' sounds just about as 'old' as ma'am. There really is no easy term that I can think of off-hand. At my job I try to avoid it altogether. If I see a girl/woman waiting for service, I just call out, "Can I help you?" Thank God that guys aren't as picky about being called Sir.
In a white collar business environment on the left coast or right coast, ma'am is a banned word. The only usage is when people are being intentionally sexist, rude, or condescending. No different than using a term of endearment like "honey" or "sweetheart". You don't address a woman with an elite university education and 6 figure career track with terms of endearment. That's Mad Men "sweetie, fetch me some coffee".
If you think it's "trying to be polite", it's pretty clear that's not your environment. South of the Mason-Dixon Line or from ex-military? Sure. In a Northeast Corridor or Bay Area office tower? Nope, unless you want to come off as some semi-literate hick from the south.
lol - Well, once again, you folks in "affluent southern New England" are pretty special. Semi- literate hick from the south? Nope on both charges. And before I retired had the pleasure of having some of those educated 6 figure women on my staff, and none of them would be offended by being addressed as ma'am.
Hint - you folks aren't nearly as special as you think you are. And your calling someone a "semi-literate hick" proves it.
Yeah I don't understand the taking offense when people are simply trying to be respectful in the way they were taught.
Although I will admit that hearing "Miss (firstname)" is like nails on a chalkboard to me. I hate it. But I'm certainly not offended if young children use it. Thankfully it's not the custom where I live.
My gripe is only with the implication (and there is always someone) who posts with clear disdain, that those who were brought up correctly know that using those honorifics if the proper way to address people. And that the only alternative to ma'am or sir is "hey you!".
Quote:
Originally Posted by eureka1
You're overthinking this. I call people "ma'am" when they're HALF my age. It's just more polite than 'Hey you".
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom
"Excuse me, do you happen to have the time?"
Works for all ages and either gender. Contrary to popular belief, no "hey you" is involved.
Nothing wrong with adding ma'am or sir but it is perfectly polite amd respectful even without the honorific.
Sigh.....
Last edited by maciesmom; 05-16-2017 at 02:20 PM..
The only times it ever comes up for me is in a shopping venue, and 99% of the time, I'm called "miss" by a young male sales associate/clerk. I'm pushing 50, but for several years now (let's say, since I was about 30-35?), "miss" has bugged me. It should be "ma'am". I don't take it personally; rather, it's a sign of poor training on the part of the management.
Maybe if some old guy (like old enough to be my dad) were to call me "miss," I'd think he was being charming. However, anyone younger just sounds kinda stupid. It's "ma'am" and it's polite. My pre-teen sons, who are often with me when I'm called "miss", even crack up at it now.
In my opinion:
1. Ma'am should absolutely be used for any woman over the age of 30;
2. Ma'am is perfectly acceptable for women in their 20's;
3. Miss should be reserved for the under-20's set;
4. Sir can be used for any age man or boy. I suppose "young sir" could be used for a kid from a mature adult, as long as it's used politely and not to "put the kid in his place".
Ma'am and Sir, as I'm discussing it, is for the situation where you're dealing with strangers whose names you have no way of knowing... "I'll be right with you ma'am." "Sir, they're directing you to the next line." "Ma'am, I believe you dropped this." "Would you like a coupon for discounted prom pictures, miss?" ...that sort of thing.
I've heard that some women see "ma'am" as a form of address that makes them sound old. To them, I ask two questions-1)What age would you be fine with/expect to be called "ma'am" (and how old would a woman look before you would use "ma'am" on her), and 2)How would you prefer to be addressed if not "ma'am," (and what degree of respect would you show to a woman too young for "ma'am")?
Well, growing up in the deep South from my experience, this is one of those words that is etched into one's vocabulary from childhood, both by parents and school.
it depends on the situation and geographical area, I suppose. I use it on a case-by-case and situational basis. Personally, I've never had anyone snap at me for using it, knock on wood
In a white collar business environment on the left coast or right coast, ma'am is a banned word. The only usage is when people are being intentionally sexist, rude, or condescending. No different than using a term of endearment like "honey" or "sweetheart". You don't address a woman with an elite university education and 6 figure career track with terms of endearment. That's Mad Men "sweetie, fetch me some coffee".
If you think it's "trying to be polite", it's pretty clear that's not your environment. South of the Mason-Dixon Line or from ex-military? Sure. In a Northeast Corridor or Bay Area office tower? Nope, unless you want to come off as some semi-literate hick from the south.
Now THAT (the bolded phrase) is something worth being offended by. Seriously, do you think that no one from the south has a college education?? There are plenty of semi-literate folks from California too.
I lived in California my whole life and had a "6 figure career track" (now happily retired to Tennessee) and "Ma'am" is a commonly used word in both CA and TN, in business or otherwise. It is not a term of endearment, but one of respect, and the exact opposite of condescension. It is in no way the equivalent of "sweetie" or "honey".
You ever notice how the only people who mention salaries by the number of digits are those trying to impress others?
Now THAT (the bolded phrase) is something worth being offended by. Seriously, do you think that no one from the south has a college education?? There are plenty of semi-literate folks from California too.
I lived in California my whole life and had a "6 figure career track" (now happily retired to Tennessee) and "Ma'am" is a commonly used word in both CA and TN, in business or otherwise. It is not a term of endearment, but one of respect, and the exact opposite of condescension. It is in no way the equivalent of "sweetie" or "honey".
You ever notice how the only people who mention salaries by the number of digits are those trying to impress others?
Can we agree to put those with extreme attitudes on either end of the spectrum into the same category? That the idea of using ma'am defines one as a "Southern hick" is just as offensive as those calling out others for not using it as "Northern/Western boors" who weren't raised properly?
I was a public servant for more than 35 years. I knew my station in life, was proud to serve in it and still am to this day.
To me, everybody was 'Sir' or 'Ma'am.' (The only difference between the two is whether or not you could grow a mustache - once past puberty.)
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