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You do realize, don't you, that there are major swaths of the country, where churchgoing is not the dominant norm?
Yep. I'm in New England. Only old people go to church.
I guess I'm nowhere near the norm for American social culture. I've always made the effort to stay in contact with people. I have a dozen strong friendships where many of them go back 20 or 30 years. My girlfriend comments about it. I'm pushing 60 and I have close friends who date back to when I was in my 20's. I think it's mostly because I never completely broke contact with my home town and own a vacation home there now; and I've been at the same ski resort since my mid-20's. If I'd done several 500+ mile moves in my adult life, I wouldn't have that.
This subject has been intwined in so many other topics and posts........and we could go on forever.
I tell my twins that family comes first.....as far as their friends not quite sure what to tell them about that because those days of growing up and entering first grade and having the same neighborhood children follow them through to high school is getting scarce.
I have a very small handful of close friends spread out over the US and we work at keeping in touch. I always thought when we got older we would have more time to get together. Now it seems the opposite.
I going to make a rash generalization here......most Americans lack the time in their day for nurturing long lasting friendships or entertaining new ones. I have co-workers who spend their weekends following their children's traveling sports teams all over their region.
The Shriners, Masons, Knights of Columbus and many others are all experiencing severe dwindling memberships. So yes society is changing and adapting to what is immediately important to each person or family.
I am considered one of the dwindling dinosaurs at work being replaced by much younger though respectful workers. Those days of employee golf outings or the like no longer have that many participants. I see this generation and work is a means to money for most of them.
We now live in a very fast paced society and with both parents working they have a tendency to stay in their small social circle.
As far as the church comment.......I am also from New England and I hope I do not offend anyone but the Baptist churches down here have tremendous opportunity for those that want to network. Some of these churches in my area have grown enormous in a very short time springing up from just a few families.
Happy Easter, and if you have not talked to that childhood friend in a while give them a call or send them a text today
This is not an American bashing thread. I love America. This is just a commentary on things I have noticed and I am curious to discuss.
I am originally from a developing nation. My wife was born in America but has roots in another developing nation. We often visit both places. The thing that always jumps out most at me is how different the human interactions are from America. And for the better.
Frankly, I think that the American social culture is terrible. Friendships appear to be pretty disposable. Social interactions seem to be regimented, with things needing to be scheduled weeks in advance. Once you are over 25, there seems to be no spontaneity left. Everything needs to be planned - drinks on Thursday with Bob. Dinner on Saturday with Jane and Ray. And the three shall never meet.
The chances of me texting somebody and them agreeing on a short notice to meet up are slim. They will always have something to do. I need to get on their schedule for next weekend.
Nobody drops by. Even your closest friends. Jamal doesn’t stop on the way back from work to chat about politics and have a beer. The visit has to be coordinated days ahead.
Even the fun is coordinated and scripted. We will go to Place A and do Y and X. After that we will go to Place B and do Z.
There is very little spontaneity and just being with. In our countries you constantly see people just being with - sitting on a bench in the park, sitting at a cafe, walking by the river-front. You see that in America but it is different.
It is hard to describe if you haven’t experienced it. The walk is purposeful. You will meet and walk along the river. You dont just organically end there after pointlessly meandering lost in conversation.
You belong to a jogging group. You go hiking. You plan to get wasted next weekend. You travel. The friendship is focused on activities versus just being with and enjoying each other’s company.
You do these things in our countries, too. But they are secondary. The come after being with. They are the cherry on top. Not the only things you do as friends.
In addition, it is amazing to me how disposable friendships are. Part of it is the mobility of Americans. I get that. In most countries people are not as mobile, but here we move states so easily.
But just look at other reasons why people stop hanging out
- they start dating somebody
- they get new friends
- they move to a suburb
- they have kids
- they join some social group
All of these are absurd to me. Just thinking to my friends in my country - they are still hanging out after 20 years. New girlfriends are welcomed. Kids sit in a stroller while parents are sitting in a cafe. Or play unsupervised at the near playground without a parent with outstretched arms by them every time they climb up a yard.
Friends mingle. There is no such thing as work friends, church friends, soccer friends. If you are fun, you are invited to all types of functions. Here people have completely separate groups of friends that literally might never meet. That’s insane to me. How can people who are close to you never meet?
Anyway, it is just some observations. I know they are anecdotal, but I feel pretty comfortable generalizing based on them. I am very good at reading people and I have spent a lot of time reading, researching and observing American society. I think that our social interactions culture is terrible.
Breaking into existing friends groups is almost impossible. Friendships are disposable. If you move after 40, your only chance of a meaningful relationship is joining a meetup with other “lonely losers” like yourself. Your coworker is unlikely you to invite you to a BBQ. And if they do, their friends are highly unlikely to ask for your number and stay in touch unless you literally bend over backwards over several months. So you join a meetup.
Just so strange.
Ive noticed this a while back but it’s nothing bad. Lots has to do with changes in lifestyles and people just having busy lives. If a family has three kids all in different types of activities they are just busy. Some people work long hours or strange schedules and may not have time for spontaneous things.
We are also a lot more independent so we dint need a bunch of friends. I know I have very few people I call friends. I know a lot of people but we aren’t friends in the true sense.
Lots of people tend to be more distant. When I was young I had people drop by all the time. Hell most of my friends knew where the secret key was. But I had more time back then as I worked different schedules. I was single also so there was no gf or wife to deal with.
Now? I don’t have people drop by anymore and it’s not because I don’t want them to. I work long hours so I dont get home until late. By that time all I wanna do is shower eat and play with my dogs talk to my wife. I only have a few hours to do that then I gotta go to bed. Weekends are pretty busy doing all the things that needed doing during the week. So having someone just drop by is sort of tough. It has nothing to do with not wanting them to. Most of my close friends are military and are stationed far away. We do talk on the phone or text. And we do visit each other.
I think in a lot of countries you have a different lifestyle. Wherever you are from it may be a more lax way of life and maybe less demanding. Maybe everything is closer. Maybe you have a better social network than we do. In some cases our social network seems to be based on showing off as in look at how much better I’m doing and how much fun I’m having on Facebook.
It seems that the common theme here in this thread is that if you have moved from your "home-base" forming a new social network is difficult for many adults and those responses that say that they are too busy, have a full dance card and the observations of the OP and others on this thread are exactly the reasons why.
The question aside from joining a church which only works for those religious in their orientation, is how to break into somewhat closed societies when you are new to an area without built in connections. We've been here 6 years and still have no friends of our own and not for the want of trying. The meet-ups are poorly attended and those that show up already have their lifelong networks. We've never made a dent in those type of activities.
Hosting a party? We've tried that but it was pretty much our family members that attended. Though we are helpful, generous and open what we have is: Chatty but distant neighbors, nodding acquaintances, hired help, business associates and even when we've seemed to "mesh" we've made no real friends of our own. Like another poster, we are our own best friends but that puts a lot of pressure on the relationship.
Like I said in my past comment, we are moving east and are prepared to have exactly what we have here: Chatting neighbors, nodding acquaintances, hired help, business associates, sailing peers but maybe no real friends. Troublesome as we age.
I agree it is what it is but what is has become a thorny problem to those of us that have moved once or more because of work or the economy.
how social is that, really? It's akin to attending a one-hour lecture every week.
More like learning something important each week. A time to socialize and talk with one another. People help each other out outside the church. My kids are at church right now.I am home with my sick wife. People come by sometimes and look in on my wife and bring food. I have needed a ride when I needed surgery and people from the church helped out.
People at my work don't talk much.They do talk about drinking a lot. I find social media and people staring at their phones like zombies to be negative.
It also changes as you get older.I come home tired and talk with my family.Try to get projects done and unwind. I would guess many people hang out at bars. The bar thing was popular in Europe when I was there.People seemed to have little in the way of hobbies. Church was totally absent in Holland. I think people without money have friends they hang out with.People with a little cash have hobbies.
I think its kind of hard to put everyone in a box and folks are different wherever you go.
It seems that the common theme here in this thread is that if you have moved from your "home-base" forming a new social network is difficult for many adults and those responses that say that they are too busy, have a full dance card and the observations of the OP and others on this thread are exactly the reasons why.
The question aside from joining a church which only works for those religious in their orientation, is how to break into somewhat closed societies when you are new to an area without built in connections. We've been here 6 years and still have no friends of our own and not for the want of trying. The meet-ups are poorly attended and those that show up already have their lifelong networks. We've never made a dent in those type of activities.
Hosting a party? We've tried that but it was pretty much our family members that attended. Though we are helpful, generous and open what we have is: Chatty but distant neighbors, nodding acquaintances, hired help, business associates and even when we've seemed to "mesh" we've made no real friends of our own. Like another poster, we are our own best friends but that puts a lot of pressure on the relationship.
Like I said in my past comment, we are moving east and are prepared to have exactly what we have here: Chatting neighbors, nodding acquaintances, hired help, business associates, sailing peers but maybe no real friends. Troublesome as we age.
I agree it is what it is but what is has become a thorny problem to those of us that have moved once or more because of work or the economy.
My relatives have a potluck in their garage almost every week where the neighbors all pitch in and socialize.
Where I live the churchgoers are more like this. People don't notice the rat race they live in. I really don't like cell phones and social media.People are drifting further apart. My daughter says kids ask each other out with a text and also break up with a text. I find this strange. Conversation seems to be a dying thing.
This is not an American bashing thread. I love America. This is just a commentary on things I have noticed and I am curious to discuss.
I am originally from a developing nation. My wife was born in America but has roots in another developing nation. We often visit both places. The thing that always jumps out most at me is how different the human interactions are from America. And for the better.
Frankly, I think that the American social culture is terrible. Friendships appear to be pretty disposable. Social interactions seem to be regimented, with things needing to be scheduled weeks in advance. Once you are over 25, there seems to be no spontaneity left. Everything needs to be planned - drinks on Thursday with Bob. Dinner on Saturday with Jane and Ray. And the three shall never meet.
The chances of me texting somebody and them agreeing on a short notice to meet up are slim. They will always have something to do. I need to get on their schedule for next weekend.
Nobody drops by. Even your closest friends. Jamal doesn’t stop on the way back from work to chat about politics and have a beer. The visit has to be coordinated days ahead.
Even the fun is coordinated and scripted. We will go to Place A and do Y and X. After that we will go to Place B and do Z.
There is very little spontaneity and just being with. In our countries you constantly see people just being with - sitting on a bench in the park, sitting at a cafe, walking by the river-front. You see that in America but it is different.
It is hard to describe if you haven’t experienced it. The walk is purposeful. You will meet and walk along the river. You dont just organically end there after pointlessly meandering lost in conversation.
You belong to a jogging group. You go hiking. You plan to get wasted next weekend. You travel. The friendship is focused on activities versus just being with and enjoying each other’s company.
You do these things in our countries, too. But they are secondary. The come after being with. They are the cherry on top. Not the only things you do as friends.
In addition, it is amazing to me how disposable friendships are. Part of it is the mobility of Americans. I get that. In most countries people are not as mobile, but here we move states so easily.
But just look at other reasons why people stop hanging out
- they start dating somebody
- they get new friends
- they move to a suburb
- they have kids
- they join some social group
All of these are absurd to me. Just thinking to my friends in my country - they are still hanging out after 20 years. New girlfriends are welcomed. Kids sit in a stroller while parents are sitting in a cafe. Or play unsupervised at the near playground without a parent with outstretched arms by them every time they climb up a yard.
Friends mingle. There is no such thing as work friends, church friends, soccer friends. If you are fun, you are invited to all types of functions. Here people have completely separate groups of friends that literally might never meet. That’s insane to me. How can people who are close to you never meet?
Anyway, it is just some observations. I know they are anecdotal, but I feel pretty comfortable generalizing based on them. I am very good at reading people and I have spent a lot of time reading, researching and observing American society. I think that our social interactions culture is terrible.
Breaking into existing friends groups is almost impossible. Friendships are disposable. If you move after 40, your only chance of a meaningful relationship is joining a meetup with other “lonely losers” like yourself. Your coworker is unlikely you to invite you to a BBQ. And if they do, their friends are highly unlikely to ask for your number and stay in touch unless you literally bend over backwards over several months. So you join a meetup.
Just so strange.
Well yes, cultures are different. I was born and raised in the U.S. but I have roots in another country, and when I visit my cousins there I find it very charming to see friends come over and shoot the breeze till late at night while sharing alcohol. But there are different values and traditions, and the American way is the American way. That's not to say I disagree with you on everything in your post.
I do, however, strongly disagree with the "pop-in". Think about it: if I only have 7 friends who are on different schedules of availability, and they dropped by unannounced after work, say, just once a week each, when do I have time to commit to my family? When do THEY have my undivided attention?
Perhaps in other countries, there is more time to both socialize and take care of your family, because there is less time devoted to work. Maybe less time is devoted to work because there is less concern with driving the most expensive car or living in a big home that is in reality excessive. Hey, our society's priorities aren't perfect. I certainly agree with that. But in a culture where people leave for work in the morning and don't get back home till 10-12 hours later--and that's if they DON'T stop to meet a friend for a beer after work--the charming and ideal social values that you dearly miss just aren't realistic. Especially for those who aren't responsible for only themselves.
I've started noticing the trend 10 or so years ago. Many friends got married and had children, so they ditched all of their single friends and only hang out with people who are just as phony and fickle as they are. People think I'm being rude or inconsiderate when I decide to "drop" in. No, I am being a friend. I actually give a --it about the ones I call "friends." I wouldn't turn any of my friends away if/when they decided to drop by on a whim, regardless of the time. My door is always open to those who matter to me.
As far as breaking into new groups after relocating...........yeah, it's difficult. It's next to impossible since I have relocated so many times within the last 15 years. I am active in the local hockey scene. Do any of my teammates invite me over for anything? No. Do they talk to me outside of the rink? Absolutely not. I also skydive. It appears to be the most promising crowd to hang around.
So you are "being a friend" by dropping in on people, without any regard for whether they wanted company? Oh, I get it. You are dropping in for THEIR benefit. Got it.
Since you blanket-labelled all of those friends who got married and had children as phony and fickle, let me in turn judge YOU by suggesting that perhaps you are stuck in adolescence. The pop-in was awesome in college when friends didn't have to worry about being up early in the morning or tending to their spouse and children. But yeah, your married friends have responsibilities to others now, it has nothing to do with being phony or fickle. Maybe they've started hanging out with different people who share their situations and thus are more likely to respect their boundaries. If you want to perpetually live in an episode of Friends, good for you. But guess what? Even Monica and Chandler eventually got married and moved to the 'burbs.
As I said to the original OP, I acknowledge how great it would be if we all had more time to socialize and spend less time worrying about other things. The difference between you and the OP is that you name-call those who don't share your view (and were actually friends of yours at some point), and bitterly say they misunderstand you, and it's because YOU "give a **it" about them and are a better friend than them. I guess those same people who you once adored all changed, while you stayed nice and perfect.
But hey, keep dropping in on people even if they're not receptive to it because, you know, you CARE about them.
I'm not going to read 6 pages of numerous posts ~ I'll just give my input with risk of repeating.
I have heard from a few travelers about how Europeans (mostly France) commonly meet after work at cafes and pubs to socialize, yet not here.
For one thing, I believe Americans work more hours than most of Europe ~ correct? And that would make a big difference to how much play-time one feels after putting in a day's work. Plus, some cultures have longer lunch hours. Many Americans are stressed in their jobs, and when the shift ends they just want to get away from people. The weekends are all they have. This is partly why spontaneity does not work so well here.
This is also such a diverse country of different cultural backgrounds, some of which I'm sure is not big on the type of socializing that some European countries do.
Last edited by Luckystrike1; 04-01-2018 at 12:35 PM..
This has been a real eye-opener for me, retiring to So. America. In the towns, I see everyone hanging out on their "stoops" or doorways, or in the yard in a hammock. Several people will just be gathered next to, or under a house (many on stilts, so under the house is the social area). All ages from grandparents to little kids. Streets are full, people are everywhere. In the parks, strolling the sidewalks, families or couples or teens hanging out. Front doors are usually wide open if owners are home.
It's very family-oriented here. Kind of refreshing to see, actually! Even though everyone seems to have a smart-phone, there's still plenty of informal socializing.
We do drop in each other sometimes here in our condo complex because the cell phone reception is so bad due to the beefy concrete construction. But it is for something specific, not to just hang out. We do that at the pool or happy hour at the gazebo.
On another note, there are no "assisted living" or nursing homes. I do wonder how families cope with ailing older relatives who might need a lot of help. I would guess they all just pitch in, or the failing relative dies earlier than they would in the U.S. with all the emphasis on prolonging a low-quality aging life.
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Geez
