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First of all I am not sure if posting this here is ok. I searched for an other forum more appropriate but couldn't find one. Moderators please move somewhere else if needed and sorry and thanks.
I am a 52 Y.O. male, born in France and have been living in the USA for 26 years. I love it here. I have been happily married to a US citizen for 26 years, have a lovely 26 Y.O. daughter (Who doesn't speak a word of French and I never forced it on her LOL), we own a modest house, have normal cars and 2 great dogs.
I live an American life, I am not the kind of foreigner dressing, eating and living like in my own country. (Ok I still watch a little European soccer here and there and will occasionally cook a French meal.)
All right here is the problem I am faced with basically weekly, at work or at whatever party, meet or whatever I am engaged in.
Let's say I am talking with an American male about whatever, all goes fine we are facing each other and talking, then a 3rd or more Americans join the discussion.
At this point and this happens 90% of the time with males, they start completely ignoring me. I say something and some guy in the group will answer looking at another American in the group.
Or one will ask a question on a subject I know and I will answer him and again he does not acknowledge me.
Then when the group is broken up and I am minding my own business alone, a member of that previous group will come talk to me facing me, looking at me, answering my questions and so on.
On some rare case I have had one person in these groups that on a one on one is a good buddy, will try to make fun at me in front of everybody in the group when he would never try to humiliate this way on a one on one.
We have a Japanese restaurant we like to go with my wife. There is an American waiter that we kind of socialize with. And he does it too sometimes. I ask him a question and he will answer and only look at my wife.
Do I intimidate males here? I am not tall or muscular without being a twig.
I am not a dumb person, that could be the problem but I am not.
90% of males do that and maybe only 25% of females.
We have a few foreigners at work and when I talk with several of them none will do that.
I have politely confronted some individuals on a few occasions on why they did that, and all reply the same thing "I never did that".
I have grown so accustomed to it that now after a little bit of that game I just leave the group.
Thanks for your time
Pat
Last edited by vaindioux; 10-13-2019 at 11:05 AM..
Reason: Forgot something
Are you more comfortable one-on-one with people, to the point where your body language and behavior reflect that? You might not even notice that you stop making eye contact or act closed off in larger groups and others subconsciously pick up on that.
Are you more comfortable one-on-one with people, to the point where your body language and behavior reflect that? You might not even notice that you stop making eye contact or act closed off in larger groups and others subconsciously pick up on that.
It's not that I am more comfortable in either a one on one or in group as I am not shy at all but I prefer the one on one as people act as themselves. They don't put their mask on on a one on one.
Maybe I do something wrong in groups, if you can give me pointers.
Just this week one of my best buddies at work (We exchange comics and dvd's all the time, talk history that we both like) and he did it in a group. A guy in that group that I barely know did not do it and looked at me and talked to me normally.
I don't think I am imagining things when I clearly see when some people acknowledge me.
Open to pointers anyway.
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I have the opposite problem, and I also don't understand the dynamic.
If I'm in a group of a few people, the person who is speaking at the time will often look only at me while talking, never breaking to look at anyone else.
I'm not gorgeous. I don't have more social power than anyone else.
I don't know why people who are talking in small groups look at me the whole time, ignoring the others.
I have to look away or pull out my cell phone and look at that, to break the one on one nature of the conversation and make them direct their conversation to others in the group.
I don't party so I'm not in big groups but I much prefer to meet people in coffee shops and make friends there.
Different parts of the world there are cliques that do not warm to outsiders at all and enjoy doing so.
Even I must check my breath from time to time, it happens.
With out knowing all the details it is hard to make accurate determinations , but the best you can do is be patient and not try to impress any one. Some times a good listener is much better trait.
This is similar to an experience I had with a former boss. If I understand the description of your background correctly, your first language was French, so it is likely that you speak English with an accent to some degree. I wonder if the people you are associating with subconsciously (or maybe even consciously) dismiss accented speech as less authoritative or reliable. In my case, I was the only woman on this manager's leadership team, and he literally did not hear anything I said and would later berate me for not giving him some piece of information I had, in fact given him in our daily meetings. He apparently simply dismissed anything spoken in a female voice. The problem was somewhat alleviated when my male colleagues spoke up to defend me when he did that (and completely solved when I moved on to another position away from that manager).
Does anyone else in your group of acquaintances notice when this happens to you? If there is someone who does notice this, maybe you could encourage him to point it out to the others when it happens. If you are being overlooked because of an unconscious bias regarding accented speech, having someone else point it out to them might make them actually acknowledge that it is happening.
It must be really frustrating to have that happen so frequently. And the clumsy attempts at teasing that are actually humiliating sound gratuitously hurtful. I'd be calling them on that every time it happened and asking why they were doing it. Same with being ignored. If they are doing it on purpose and having to answer for their behavior causes them to avoid you, well, you've not really lost anything. If they don't realize they're doing it, having it pointed out to them at the moment they are doing it might bring about the epiphany they need to stop doing it.
And it might not have anything to do with you at all. Maybe they're just ill-mannered jerks, in which case your best course of action might be to seek new opportunities to make friends.
I've noticed more and more people lose interest in what others are saying and direct their attention elsewhere, depending on who it is that is talking, what they're saying, and perceived social cues and even social status. Humans communicate up to 90% nonverbally.
Do you spend more time talking or more time listening?
Try an experiment and see what happens: next time you're in a similar situation, ask a question (open-ended) to the person you're conversing with, something that they're interested in, and let the other person talk at length and just listen and see if they turn their attention away from you.
Some people are happier when they are the ones talking more or even most of the time. It's not universal as people are different, but it would be good to discover any patterns around that. Try not to assume you're doing something wrong; take time to pay attention and observe.
Wow lots of good info people. Yes I do have a French accent when I speak but my English is good. It's rare when Americans ask me to repeat something (But it happens sometimes and I totally understand that).
I think it must be the accent that makes them uncomfortable to some extend.
I am going to try to listen more as mentioned here and see what happens.
Clara this is funny we have the exact opposite problem.
Chaofan I have often heard that women in the work place have to work twice as hard as the men to be considered. I also have that problem with one of my managers (Out of 7) at work, as a foreigner he seems to require more from me.
I think next time I am in a group, I am not going to say anything and see if someone addresses me. I usually jump in the conversation.
Thanks for the help
Pat
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