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Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77
I understand mid-Atlantic voting pretty well. Pennsylvania is the only true battleground state in the region, and Virginia is a newcomer to that category. NY (which is technically mid-Atlantic), NJ, DE, MD, and DC have all been reliably blue for the last six presidential elections. Pennsylvania went that way also; it's still a battleground state but not like, say, Florida which has truly done some flip-flopping since '92.
Let me explain something. North Jersey is blue. South Jersey is red. What reliably pushes NJ blue in national elections is boomer females voting for choice. I don't know enough Delaware residents to make a blanket statement, but of the female Delaware residents who I have known, the same holds true. How else do you explain the willy-nilly voting in state & local elections?
Calling a MidAtlantic state red, blue, or purple in general is chancey unless you break it down. Heck, Philadelphia is bluer than blue, but it leans conservative. The most recent example is Michael Nutter. He broke out of the pack to be elected for the first term by advocating stop & frisk (& he implemented it too).
Let me explain something. North Jersey is blue. South Jersey is red. What reliably pushes NJ blue in national elections is boomer females voting for choice. I don't know enough Delaware residents to make a blanket statement, but of the female Delaware residents who I have known, the same holds true. How else do you explain the willy-nilly voting in state & local elections?
Calling a MidAtlantic state red, blue, or purple in general is chancey unless you break it down. Heck, Philadelphia is bluer than blue, but it leans conservative. The most recent example is Michael Nutter. He broke out of the pack to be elected for the first term by advocating stop & frisk (& he implemented it too).
We're talking about national elections for the most part. Every state will have their blue and red areas, but as a general rule the more populous areas (with more minorities) tend to be blue and the less populous areas tend to be red (e.g., north and south Jersey, respectively). Also even the most liberal of states will elect Republican lawmakers and such (e.g., Governors Christie, Romney, Schwarzenegger, etc.) so that's a constant.
Yes, and a northern Republican is often more liberal than a Deep Southern Democrat. For example, Governor Charlie Baker is a pro-gay Republican.
Yup, and even the red areas in an area like south Jersey have a very different vibe than comparable places in the South. For instance, I live in suburban south Jersey and work in rural south Jersey, and seeing Tea Party/anti-Obama political propaganda is extremely rare, whereas you could close your eyes, spin, and point and land on something like that in the rural South.
Yes, and a northern Republican is often more liberal than a Deep Southern Democrat. For example, Governor Charlie Baker is a pro-gay Republican.
The left/right paradigm might as well be thrown out when it comes to the United States. Classical liberalism, in its original sense, is a complete mystery to the average voter, and as such means that political labeling in the US of A is complete chaos.
This doesn't even begin to address the ideological shifts that have occurred in both parties over the years (former party of pro slavery nominating and electing a black man, for instance). Thus, you are absolutely right in that many "Rockefeller" Republicans would not necessarily be comfortable with their Oklahoma or Alabama counterparts.
Another reason why I will say, despite Mutiny's absolutely spot on characterization of state policies coming out of North Carolina, the state is fairly even keel on the whole (unless you go out into the rural isolated counties).
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77
Yup, and even the red areas in an area like south Jersey have a very different vibe than comparable places in the South. For instance, I live in suburban south Jersey and work in rural south Jersey, and seeing Tea Party/anti-Obama political propaganda is extremely rare, whereas you could close your eyes, spin, and point and land on something like that in the rural South.
My suggestion would be to take a couple of field trips. Try Penns Grove, Elmer, Vineland, & Chatsworth. Then get back to us. I could add another tier, but that group is good enough.
For what it's worth, I had a neighbor in Cherry Hill who regularly flew the stars & bars. There's bars in Franklin Twp that would make you swear that you'd stepped into a bar in rural Georgia.
My suggestion would be to take a couple of field trips. Try Penns Grove, Elmer, Vineland, & Chatsworth. Then get back to us. I could add another tier, but that group is good enough.
I've already been around to several towns in the area, as my job requires me to do a bit of traveling: Swedesboro, Mullica Hill, Vineland, Newfield, Pittman, Woodstown, Pedricktown, Glassboro, etc. I stand by my assertion; the vibe when it comes to political expression is quite different here than in areas of the rural South and noticeably so. I have a co-worker who's originally from Louisiana and has been living in Vineland for the past year who concurs.
Quote:
For what it's worth, I had a neighbor in Cherry Hill who regularly flew the stars & bars. There's bars in Franklin Twp that would make you swear that you'd stepped into a bar in rural Georgia.
I wouldn't doubt that, but it doesn't really negate my statement.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77
I've already been around to several towns in the area, as my job requires me to do a bit of traveling: Swedesboro, Mullica Hill, Vineland, Newfield, Pittman, Woodstown, Pedricktown, Glassboro, etc. I stand by my assertion; the vibe when it comes to political expression is quite different here than in areas of the rural South and noticeably so. I have a co-worker who's originally from Louisiana and has been living in Vineland for the past year who concurs.
I wouldn't doubt that, but it doesn't really negate my statement.
If you want to stick strictly to politics, it all boils down to exactly what I said. In the MidAtlantic you have a generation of women who, regardless of political affiliation, vote for choice. The reason for this is my generation sees a correlation between pro-life politicians & policies that are unrelated but not promoting gender equality.
If you want to keep it racial, try Pitman, Glassboro, Clayton. I definitely recommend a visit to Chatsworth as well as Franklin Twp. Penns Grove is a community with a high concentration of rural evangelicals. Swedesboro,15/20 years ago, would have been a totally different experience. Several housing developments went in there during the boom before the bust. Mullica Hill has always had a bit of money, but they also saw new housing built during the bubble.
If you're working in the area that you asked about on the South Jersey board, ask them about the area that used to be the center of the oyster industry before the oyster beds were wiped out by disease. There are also natives in that area with accents that are similar to Virginia accents. I continue to be amazed by the lower number of stars & bars that I see in my area of NC when compared to South Jersey.
I don't live all that far from rural areas & if I go to Shelby or Gaffney I will run into individuals from rural areas. They don't seem significantly different from folks who I've run into in South Jersey. Keep in mind that Woodstown functions as a suburb for Wilmington. It's never been a totally rural town, however, you should try the Cowtown Rodeo & the Cowtown Flea Market.
Last edited by southbound_295; 06-20-2015 at 08:12 AM..
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295
If you want to stick strictly to politics, it all boils down to exactly what I said. In the MidAtlantic you have a generation of women who, regardless of political affiliation, vote for choice. The reason for this is my generation sees a correlation between pro-life politicians & policies that are unrelated but not promoting gender equality.
If you want to keep it racial, try Pitman, Glassboro, Clayton. I definitely recommend a visit to Chatsworth as well as Franklin Twp. Penns Grove is a community with a high concentration of rural evangelicals. Swedesboro,15/20 years ago, would have been a totally different experience. Several housing developments went in there during the boom before the bust. Mullica Hill has always had a bit of money, but they also saw new housing built during the bubble.
If you're working in the area that you asked about on the South Jersey board, ask them about the area that used to be the center of the oyster industry before the oyster beds were wiped out by disease. There are also natives in that area with accents that are similar to Virginia accents. I continue to be amazed by the lower number of stars & bars that I see in my area of NC when compared to South Jersey.
I don't live all that far from rural areas & if I go to Shelby or Gaffney I will run into individuals from rural areas. They don't seem significantly different from folks who I've run into in South Jersey. Keep in mind that Woodstown functions as a suburb for Wilmington. It's never been a totally rural town, however, you should try the Cowtown Rodeo & the Cowtown Flea Market.
Forgot to mention that most people tend to not discuss politics with strangers, so you could be talking with a tea party member & not know it. The same goes for religion. Even the evangelicals aren't as likely to discuss religious topics with you until they know you. That might be the vibe that you've picked up. Just because they're not talking about certain things doesn't mean that those things aren't there.
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