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First: Implementing the Voter ID law will cost about $30M. Second, there was only 1 case in which a person tried to vote with the fraudulent use of an ID since 2016. Third, about 381,000 registered voters do not have ID's in NC for diverse reasons. Approximately 100,000 are White, 200,000 Black and 81,000 other. Elections in NC are won within a 100,000 vote margin. This Amendment is an attack on the free and fair electoral process and we should never be fooled into thinking otherwise.
It's pretty apparent that there really is little voter fraud. However, that doesn't mean republicans should be dismissed from their concerns. Here is a quote from Stacey Abrams, she is running for governor of Georgia and is statistically tied as the front runner against the republican running. She said this a day or two ago.
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"The thing of it is, the blue wave is African American. It is white. It is Latino. It is Asian-Pacific Islander," Abrams said. "It is made up of those who've been told that they are not worthy of being here. It is comprised of those who are documented and undocumented.
It's not even taken out of context, you can watch the (short) video here:
The republicans are blowing this voting issue way out of proportion however the other side has also gone off the ledge. Is everyone here OK with open boarders and letting anyone vote? Completely getting rid of ICE? Republicans are not anti-immigrantion, they are pro-immigration, just in a controlled environment.
I also don't think we should try and suppress voters, if that is indeed what they are trying to do. Immigrants do better work than the majority of native Americans. But too much of one thing also isn't a great idea, as South Florida, Orlando, and CA demonstrates.
On a side note the most vocal anti-illegal immigration people I know are they themselves...immigrants. This whole thing seems to be some weird crazy Dem idea to garner the minority vote.
It's pretty apparent that there really is little voter fraud. However, that doesn't mean republicans should be dismissed from their concerns.
The thing is there is little in-person voter fraud (not talking about hacking machines) and things like voter ID do suppress the votes of tens of thousands of folks who are entitled to vote (not talking about folks who aren't citizens). If you require voter ID you WILL suppress the vote. That's just flat out the truth. 1 in 13 of Durham County voters lacks a DMV issued ID.
I really don't know that much about Stacy Abrams, but she didn't come right out and say "undocumented folks are going to vote for me". I'm not sure what she meant by her comments, but perhaps she was alluding to just a general upswelling of Blue Wave-ness?? I don't want to make excuses for her, because like I said I really don't know anything about her because I can't vote in Georgia.
The thing is there is little in-person voter fraud (not talking about hacking machines) and things like voter ID do suppress the votes of tens of thousands of folks who are entitled to vote (not talking about folks who aren't citizens). If you require voter ID you WILL suppress the vote. That's just flat out the truth. 1 in 13 of Durham County voters lacks a DMV issued ID.
I really don't know that much about Stacy Abrams, but she didn't come right out and say "undocumented folks are going to vote for me". I'm not sure what she meant by her comments, but perhaps she was alluding to just a general upswelling of Blue Wave-ness?? I don't want to make excuses for her, because like I said I really don't know anything about her because I can't vote in Georgia.
I specifically agreed with you that there is no issue with voter fraud. Do you just like repeating yourself on that issue?
Don't be coy. Blue wave is the 2018 mid term voting.
She was clear. This is about garnering (buying) votes among the minorities (minority for how long?) specifically the Latino community for a launchpad to gaining even more votes by "legitimizing" these undocumented illegals. This same thing is going on in CA sanctuary cities where they are even issued driver's licenses. It doesn't get much press but there is a HUGE voice against those policies from everyday citizens there. They are tired of the politicians promising the world to illegals in order to win the vote. It's getting crazier every day.
I'm not anti-immigrant. My wife and her family are immigrants (done legally). They are very productive members of society.
Again republicans are not against immigrants. In fact they are actually pro-immigrant, as they help keep labor costs in check. This is their response to the insane idea on the left for trying to buy votes by promising more and more to illegal immigrant/minorities. It's a chicken/egg scenario. Both sides need to back off and have a come to Jesus moment. I don't know where common sense went, but we need it back.
I specifically agreed with you that there is no issue with voter fraud. Do you just like repeating yourself on that issue?
Don't be coy. Blue wave is the 2018 mid term voting.
I'm not trying to be coy. That was what I thought Blue Wave was, but I really don't know what she was talking about, though, because obviously undocumented folks can't vote. Like I said I have not been following the Georgia elections closely so I really don't know much about her at all, so I'm not going to defend her. I don't really think what a politician in Georgia said is that relevant to our discussion of NC proposals.
As for repeating myself, I was pointing out the disparity between voter fraud and voter suppression. You said
Quote:
that (low instances of voter fraud) doesn't mean republicans should be dismissed from their concerns
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I think actually it does mean Republicans should step back from their concerns. That's why I repeated myself in hopes that I would be clearer.
Say you have 5 instances of in-person voter fraud. That is absolutely not right. I am in agreement on that.
Say in response to that lawmakers pass a law or amendment that requires voter ID and in the process suppress the vote of 500 people who don't have an ID.
How is that fair? So 5 people did something bad, so make it so 500 people can't vote?!
I just don't think the low instances of voter fraud are a problem that merits that kind of overfix. Yes, it's not 100% perfect, but when the fix is worse than the problem, don't do the fix!
Poppy you keep focusing on impersonation of a voter. Their main concern is illegals voting. That is why they want a verifiable system. The left has spun this in their head as an attack on their demographic however. Unfortunately you can't just come out and say it or you'd lose the Latino vote. It's a rock and a hard place.
Of course, the reality (right now) is that few illegals vote - they want to stay far away from polls, the law, etc. However that can change in an instant with a governor like Abrams.
I think the right would back off these stupid voter ID laws if the left would come to the table in immigration reform. That is what I meant by having a come to jesus moment and getting common sense back.
I just can't fathom why people would want open boarders. It does no one any good. Obama deported more than any of his predecessors yet nothing was ever mentioned in the press about it.
Another issue is our automatic citizenship requirement once born here. No other country has that and makes deportation extremely complicated in family situations.
Location: Chapel Hill, NC, formerly NoVA and Phila
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup
Another issue is our automatic citizenship requirement once born here. No other country has that and makes deportation extremely complicated in family situations.
Canada has the same automatic citizenship if born on their soil as do about 25 other (developing) countries.
Canada has the same automatic citizenship if born on their soil as do about 25 other (developing) countries.
Yeah I was referring to first world countries but had no idea Canada had it. Just looked it up, it changed in 2009. I guess they are hurting for people lol.
I am dual citizenship with another country and it's much harder to become a citizen in my other country. You must be born there with parents who are citizens nowadays.
Poppy you keep focusing on impersonation of a voter. Their main concern is illegals voting. That is why they want a verifiable system.
No, I am not talking about "impersonation". I said "in-person". There's a big difference!! I mean by a person going to the polling place, not by hacking a voting machine.
Hacking the machines is a far greater risk. I would be all for locking those systems down. As it is some of them are really easy to get into and do malicious things.
I do not think undocumented folks voting, or impersonation, or someone voting in two different precincts, or any other IN-PERSON fraud (not just impersonation) is much of a problem at all. The fix they are proposing will make things much worse.
I do not think undocumented folks voting, or impersonation, or someone voting in two different precincts, or any other IN-PERSON fraud (not just impersonation) is much of a problem at all. The fix they are proposing will make things much worse.
I'm really not sure if you just like hearing the same thing over and over or what...but again please read through my posts - carefully - and you'll see I completely agree with you *right now*.
But there are people running (and winning positions) for office that would like to see all of that changed.
The way our country runs (or is supposed to) is on compromise. Each side states their positions and a compromise is struck to appease everyone. Unfortunately this has become a war of getting further and further away from the center (on both sides) resulting in the right wanting this strict voter ID law and the left wanting open boarders and getting rid of ICE.
You're asking the Republicans to step away from the ledge but then aren't willing to admit there are those on the other side that are also party to the craziness. Do you see where I am going? Or will you just continue rambling on about how wrong this voter ID thing is? That is litterally where we stand with politics today - neither side willing to compromise and admit to reality. They are more concerned about grandstanding and making stump speeches.
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