Does it annoy you that homeowners are renting their basements (middle-class, to rent)

[kutra11]

Originally Posted by saganista

When is the last time you fudged on your income taxes?

Learn to focus on the subject, dude! This thread is not about me that you cherry-pick what to respond to... ...

[kutra11]

Originally Posted by Alltheusernamesaretaken

Except maybe the people who are going through the time and expense of becoming citizens via the legal channels.

And those of us paying taxes for their medical care, their translation services, their kids' education...

This goes way beyond "just living in the basement."

I totally understand that it's plain unfair for someone who's trying to become a citizen via legal channels to see someone who's committed a crime cut into your line. What I meant was that "living in the basement" or "paying taxes for their medical care, etc." is a lesser worry than knowing that our elected officials lack the will to improve/modify the immigration process (legal or illegal). We elect them because we believe they will correct or at least try to correct things, but to see them not even bring up the subject for discussion is distressing. This works not just for immigration, but for any hot topic. It's the "ensure my re-election first and hell with the country!" attitude that scares the crap out of me!

[Alltheusernamesaretaken]

Originally Posted by kutra11

This works not just for immigration, but for any hot topic. It's the "ensure my re-election first and hell with the country!" attitude that scares the crap out of me!

Could not agree with you more.
It is their own interests, and not ours, that steer them, regardless of party.

[Alltheusernamesaretaken]

Originally Posted by saganista

What does citizenship have to do with anything? Do you know what a legal resident alien is? Here's a more general clue: We will not have any control over immigration until we make it easier and cheaper to come here and work legally than it is to come here and work illegally. Right now, it is very difficult and very expensive to come here and work illegally. It is however far more difficult and expensive to come here and work legally. Every year, the US holds a lottery for 50,000 last-chance green cards. For the FY2012 lottery, there are 15,000,000 applicants. You won't get very far demanding that people avail themselves of legal opportunities when there are in fact no legal opportunities.

It's funny, any time you start spewing this pro-illegal stuff, all I hear is the wah-wah-wah Charlie-Brown-teacher voice.


Cut down on the nativist kool-aid.

I was born here, to Americans. Period.
And if you're not concerned about supporting people who shouldn't be here,
I suggest you pony up the money yourself and spare the rest of us.
If money grows on trees for you, great. But the rest of us don't want any part of that charity case you so love.

[katyusha25]

Originally Posted by saganista

You were, up until that point.



People live "like that" for financial and social reasons, not because they either have or don't have a little piece of paper.




What puzzles me is why so many people like to disparage people when all they actually know about them is that they are vaguely Hispanic-looking. (Actually, it's not that big of a puzzle.)

At the risk of going off topic, i'll leave it at this:

1) You're not being honest with yourself if you think every single person you see (hispanic or not) is here legally.

2) While this may be true, again be honest with yourself (it's not painful, I promise!) people who live crammed in basements or apartments in Northern VA tend to be illegal. Are there exceptions? Absolutely.

3) You are the one who is assuming implied illegals are hispanic. There are asians, hispanic and caucasians who are also illegal.
"Vaguely hispanic looking?" There's nothing vague about it.
Fairfax County!!! My post is on topic now!

[saganista]

Originally Posted by kutra11

Learn to focus on the subject, dude! This thread is not about me that you cherry-pick what to respond to... ...

You predicate harsh attitudes on the fact of having such a low threshhold for people committing any crime, but it turns out that you exclude some people from coverage. Such as yourself. That's not a very honest approach.

[saganista]

Originally Posted by kutra11

What I meant was that "living in the basement" or "paying taxes for their medical care, etc." is a lesser worry than knowing that our elected officials lack the will to improve/modify the immigration process (legal or illegal). We elect them because we believe they will correct or at least try to correct things, but to see them not even bring up the subject for discussion is distressing.

Really? What happened in 2007 after Congress and the White House spent months hammering out a bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform bill?

[saganista]

Originally Posted by Alltheusernamesaretaken

It's funny, any time you start spewing this pro-illegal stuff, all I hear is the wah-wah-wah Charlie-Brown-teacher voice.

The only time I start spewing this "pro-illegal stuff" is when other people start painting themselves as reactionary dim-wits by spewing the usual baseless nativist bigotry and garbage.

Originally Posted by Alltheusernamesaretaken

I was born here, to Americans. Period.

Quite an accomplishment. Nice going. But you don't really seem to have assimilated this all men are born equal thing. You seem to fancy at least a first class and a steerage class (or lower), the division being based on whether one has this little piece of paper or that in his possession or not. Creepy.

Originally Posted by Alltheusernamesaretaken

And if you're not concerned about supporting people who shouldn't be here,
I suggest you pony up the money yourself and spare the rest of us.
If money grows on trees for you, great. But the rest of us don't want any part of that charity case you so love.

Whether they should be here or not isn't relevant. Income and similar support programs target people who by their circumstances are in need. You want some status consideration to "cut in line" ahead of need. That's rather weak.

[saganista]

Originally Posted by katyusha25

You're not being honest with yourself if you think every single person you see (hispanic or not) is here legally.

To be honest, just as there has never been a time when there were no library books overdue, there has never been a time when every single person in the country was in compliance with immigration laws. Particularly when those laws themselves provoke and foster non-compliance. Actual facts of the matter are that we are just now returning to something resembling the levels of foreign-born population that were traditional in America prior to the travel-killing era of the Great Depression and two World Wars. Also that more than half of the current foreign-born population is here legally, and that half of the currently illegal population was in fact legal when they arrived. None of this of course is in the slightest way indicative of the quality or character of any of the individuals involved. Being born on US soil does nothing to assure quality and character of a man and being born abroad does nothing to preclude it. Start learning to recognize people as individuals and stop trying to lump them all into stupid and distorted stereotypical groups.

Originally Posted by katyusha25

While this may be true, again be honest with yourself (it's not painful, I promise!) people who live crammed in basements or apartments in Northern VA tend to be illegal. Are there exceptions? Absolutely.

Then you should act as if you knew there were exceptions. And since people in general are known to live in proximity to each other based on socio-economic factors rather than whether they have a green or library card, you should perhaps invest more in learning just how many of your exceptions there actually are. Easier to broad-brush the whole affair of course, but not as honest.

Originally Posted by katyusha25

You are the one who is assuming implied illegals are hispanic. There are asians, hispanic and caucasians who are also illegal.

You think the focus on Hispanics comes from me? That's rich. It comes from the same ignorant mindset that once hated Chinese, Italian, Jewish, and Muslim immigrants among others, and of course blacks without regard to their place of birth.

Originally Posted by katyusha25

"Vaguely hispanic looking?" There's nothing vague about it.

Yeah, you can spot 'em a mile away, can't you.

[katyusha25]

Originally Posted by saganista

Yeah, you can spot 'em a mile away, can't you.

Saganista - now you're just being silly, and that's fine by me.
"Vaguely" implies that, huh, they may or may not be hispanic (or whatever).

Again, while there are some exceptions, usually people who are from El Salvador/Honduras/Mexico/Vietnam/Samoa fit the physical characteristics of others from their respective countries.

So, I'll say it again - there's nothing "vaguely" about it.

But whatever. You have your angle and I have mine. It's cool.

We're going to get in trouble for going off topic