Is the split between Northern Virginia and the rest of the state getting worse? (Richmond: appointed, neighborhood)

[VA Yankee]

Originally Posted by yamota

Well, I don't think anybody's talking seccesion just yet

Depends what area you are in....

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

. But this is not the first time you were derisive or dismissive about "RoVA" you know. The term itself I think is highly insulting, as if to say there is NoVA and then there is the rest.

Hmmm? When I grew up in NY, we had a term "upstate" for areas outside greater NY. It was clear that geography was associated with different economic trends, different policy needs, etc. I think almost every state has distinctions like that. I think that its pretty clear that Nova, as part of a major metro area, is a different place than the rural areas and small and medium size metros that make up the rest of the state. That doesnt make it better, and it doesnt make it worse.

I also do not consider myself dismissive or derisive of the rest of the Commonwealth. I love the Shenandoah. I love the wonderful walkable neighborhoods of Richmond. I love chincoteague. Thats just a sample. I have said that I think of myself as more of a NoVan, or even greater washingtonian, than a Virginian. That is a statement ABOUT me, its not a value judgement of the rest of Virginia. I dont identify as a californian or Vermonter, much though I love much about those places.

[JD984]

It's all my fault. I included a throw-away line in one post ...."now if you want to talk about the Cooch" and it turned out to be like shouting "Fire" in a crowded movie theatre.

Does anyone know how popular or unpopular the Cooch is in different parts of the state? That would make the recent focus of this thread a bit more on-topic. If NoVa were a separate state, would it be a Cooch-free zone?

I'd think there are more Catholics in NoVa than in other parts of the state, but that his politics and social stances are more in line with other parts of the state than with NoVa. But that's just a suspicion.

For better or worse, he's probably the leading example of a figure in political life in Virginia whom others cite when professing to state that they could never live in the Commonwealth.

[IndiaLimaDelta]

Originally Posted by JEB77

It's all my fault. I included a throw-away line in one post ...."now if you want to talk about the Cooch" and it turned out to be like shouting "Fire" in a crowded movie theatre.

That is a hilarious comparison. I like it.

Does anyone know how popular or unpopular the Cooch is in different parts of the state? That would make the recent focus of this thread a bit more on-topic. If NoVa were a separate state, would it be a Cooch-free zone?

Of course you know the Cooch is (was) a NoVA politician. He won three elections in a left-ish Fairfax district (although things were getting tougher for him there).

I'd think there are more Catholics in NoVa than in other parts of the state, but that his politics and social stances are more in line with other parts of the state than with NoVa. But that's just a suspicion.

The "funny" thing about that, of course, is that the Diocese of Arlington (which covers NoVA) is considered very orthodox and traditional. As such, Catholics in NoVA are more likely to support someone like Cuccinelli than the less orthodox Catholics found in the Diocese of Richmond that covers the rest of the Commonwealth. In that sense, Ken is a creature of NoVA.

For better or worse, he's probably the leading example of a figure in political life in Virginia whom others cite when professing to state that they could never live in the Commonwealth.

That's right, people have voted with their feet and they are fleeing VA in large numbers! Oh, wait. Not.

Do we really need narrow-minded people like that moving here? You know, the kind of people who equate the Cooch with David Duke?

[IndiaLimaDelta]

Originally Posted by brooklynborndad

Hmmm? When I grew up in NY, we had a term "upstate" for areas outside greater NY. It was clear that geography was associated with different economic trends, different policy needs, etc. I think almost every state has distinctions like that. I think that its pretty clear that Nova, as part of a major metro area, is a different place than the rural areas and small and medium size metros that make up the rest of the state. That doesnt make it better, and it doesnt make it worse.

Yeah, I went to Stuy remember?

Funny how It's "upstate" rather than NYC vs. RoNY (a la NoVA vs. RoVA). I am sure the "rest of" moniker would have been thought much less polite than "upstate" in upstate, had you used it.

You do realize that the so-called RoVA has areas that are as different from each other as from NoVA, right? That they generally don't care to be lumped as "Rova" unlike quite a few in upstate NY who would call themselves as being from "upstate."

I think you will find that the locals of "RoVA" will take much more kindly to SWVA or SEVA or even SoVA over RoVA which oh-so sounds like "there is NoVA and then there is the rest."

I also do not consider myself dismissive or derisive of the rest of the Commonwealth. I love the Shenandoah. I love the wonderful walkable neighborhoods of Richmond. I love chincoteague. Thats just a sample. I have said that I think of myself as more of a NoVan, or even greater washingtonian, than a Virginian. That is a statement ABOUT me, its not a value judgement of the rest of Virginia. I dont identify as a californian or Vermonter, much though I love much about those places.

Yes, yes, if you found Naomi Campbell attractive, you couldn't possibly be a racist. Even if you called them collectively "those people." I get it.

In a more serious note, it's not the NoVA self-identification that raises my ire. It's the other one you used, you know, "the rest."

[CAVA1990]

Originally Posted by smithy77

Large chunks of America might as well be living in the 3rd world.

Those chunks are getting larger all the time. Eventually we're going to have to come to grips with the fact that there's an unhealthy income and wealth inequality problem in this country. I think the tea party phenomenon is an early symptom. Next stage could be mobs with torches if we're not careful.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

Yeah, I went to Stuy remember?

Funny how It's "upstate" rather than NYC vs. RoNY (a la NoVA vs. RoVA). I am sure the "rest of" moniker would have been thought much less polite than "upstate" in upstate, had you used it.

You do realize that the so-called RoVA has areas that are as different from each other as from NoVA, right? That they generally don't care to be lumped as "Rova" unlike quite a few in upstate NY who would call themselves as being from "upstate."

I think you will find that the locals of "RoVA" will take much more kindly to SWVA or SEVA or even SoVA over RoVA which oh-so sounds like "there is NoVA and then there is the rest."Yes, yes, if you found Naomi Campbell attractive, you couldn't possibly be a racist. Even if you called them collectively "those people." I get it.

In a more serious note, it's not the NoVA self-identification that raises my ire. It's the other one you used, you know, "the rest."

The geography of NYS is different from Virginia. Areas as diverse as the steel mills of buffalo, small farm towns in the finger lakes, and deep woods in the adirondacks, are all geographically upstate from greater NY. There is no similar designation that I know of that works in Virginia for all areas outside NoVa. I did not make up the term "rest of Virginia" it seems to be the usual term used here, and I have not seen people from Richmond or elsewhere take offense, other than you (though I confess to not reading every post in this thread or other threads on this matter). To me "rest of" is simply a neutral way to speak to of all that is "not X" I used to live in Baltimore. I would not have been offended if someone from MoCo had discussed differences between the DC suburbs in Md and the rest of Maryland. Perhaps I simply take offense less easily.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by smithy77

First, I have been somewhat active in the fight for gay civil rights over the years, and I've yet to meet anyone whose goal is to force any church to perform a gay marriage ceremony.

My synagogue will not perform a marriage between a (unconverted) gentile and a Jew. I couldnt imagine suggesting that the STATE should not recognize such a marriage. There are many marriages that the State recognizes that individual churches, synagogues or mosques do not.

[brooklynborndad]

Originally Posted by smithy77

First, I have been somewhat active in the fight for gay civil rights over the years, and I've yet to meet anyone whose goal is to force any church to perform a gay marriage ceremony. You know as well as I do that churches can refuse to marry anyone for any reason. The state has never had, and should never have that kind of power.

There WAS iiuc, a question in DC about churches that owned RECEPTION halls, and whether excluding receptions subsequent to gay weddings represented a violation of equality under public accommodations laws. IIUC that was resolved - the need was to give those churches the ability to maintain their principles, without creating a huge loophole in the public accommodations laws.

[saganista]

Originally Posted by IndiaLimaDelta

Of course you know the Cooch is (was) a NoVA politician. He won three elections in a left-ish Fairfax district (although things were getting tougher for him there).

Leftish? Prior to Cuccinelli, the district was fond of electing Warren Barry, yet another reactionary creep.