How many of yall go through Dulles Airport to avoid tolls (Richmond: fit in, hotel)

[Tom Lennox 70]

Snowden I actually went to the rental car area and make a u-turn which brought me right back onto the freeway and onto 28 but thanks for the speed enforcement tip. I did notice that traffic moved kinda slow on the access road compared to the speeding and aggressive driving I'm used to when visiting the DC area. I HAVE used the airport just for the car rental before.

That Exxon's prices are not bad for that area, though it is more expensive than where I live.

[Tom Lennox 70]

Originally Posted by pcity

So... you realize the airport authority, not VDOT, operates the Dulles Toll Road, right?

You not paying for the Toll Road doesn't affect VDOT or the VA gov't.

And the airport authority wins either way- you're either paying them directly with the toll or you're buying something from a gas station that operates on their land.

I know and the car rental places have a super expensvie airport tax and surcharge compared to a similar rental at a regular location. Well at least Virginia's tolls are much more reasonable than Maryland, EVEN Northern Virginia! Though I think the way of having toll booths at every exit is inefficient on the Dulles toll road since they would have to hire more toll collectors and may more state workers getting super comfy benefits! The Florida Turnpike also does toll plazas at every exit but its being phased out to automated toll collection kind of like the ICC in Montgomery County now. Richmond has some tolls but are not bad at all compared to Maryland.

And with state transportation money its especially not right when gasoline taxes and tolls are used to fund mass transit. I do know that Virginia does get more revenue through tickets while Maryland gets more revenue through taxes and tolls. When I drive south, VA and SC have a reputation for very strict police enforcement of speed limits, while NC and GA and especially FL have far less enforcement. I've been told this by friends, truckers, even a hitchhiker.......

[Tom Lennox 70]

The idea of forcing people to use a toll road is very troubling. I don't think it would be beyond the Maryland state government (or Northern Virginia governments if the trend of liberalism continues to move south) to ban toll avoidance for example by creating laws that say "no thru traffic" on routes that people typically take to bypass tolls, like the Conowingo Dam. I am sure whatever technology the Dulles police use to catch people can be deployed easily elsewhere.

[NC211]

Originally Posted by pcity

He's legal though- business on airport property is airport business. Neither letter nor spirit has been violated.

Also I don't know if I really consider the airport authority the "government".

That is exactly right! I'm not violating any written law, I'm choosing the alternative to the issue, the path of least resistance. I'm also making the educated decision that if I'm going to pay $2 for something, I'd rather it be as enjoyable as possible, like say a breakfast snack and a Coke, instead of a traffic jam. Sitting their weeks ago, stuck in traffic because of construction on the DTR, asking myself the question of why am I paying to sit here, as I'm watching car after car after car, just cruise on by me on the airport road. If you're going to charge people for something, it should be a better alternative than what they can get for the same amount of money elsewhere.

And call it what you want, but paying $5 for the greenway is plenty. It's not my fault if the VDOT folks or airport folks get screwed by it. Their in the road business, they made the business decision to forego the greenway. You can't fix stupid, but you can use it to your own advantage.

[spencgr]

Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70

The idea of forcing people to use a toll road is very troubling.

Who is forcing you to use a toll road? Your very first post outlined another (non-toll) route you could take. There are quite a few options, really.

[Phyxius]

Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70

The idea of forcing people to use a toll road is very troubling. I don't think it would be beyond the Maryland state government (or Northern Virginia governments if the trend of liberalism continues to move south) to ban toll avoidance for example by creating laws that say "no thru traffic" on routes that people typically take to bypass tolls, like the Conowingo Dam. I am sure whatever technology the Dulles police use to catch people can be deployed easily elsewhere.

Again, you are not forced to use a toll road. The problem is that the road you want to use as an alternate is exclusive to airport traffic. What part of that don't you not understand? If you do not wish to pay the toll, there are several other roads were listed for you including routes you yourself posted that you could take.

There is always an alternative choice. No one is forcing anyone to use a toll road. Figure it out yourself what the best route is for you.

[pcity]

Originally Posted by Tom Lennox 70

The idea of forcing people to use a toll road is very troubling. I don't think it would be beyond the Maryland state government (or Northern Virginia governments if the trend of liberalism continues to move south) to ban toll avoidance for example by creating laws that say "no thru traffic" on routes that people typically take to bypass tolls, like the Conowingo Dam. I am sure whatever technology the Dulles police use to catch people can be deployed easily elsewhere.

I have no idea how you got from "Airport Access road is for airport business only" to "forcing people to use a toll road". It's actually a lot easier to avoid the Dulles Toll Road by taking Route 7 than it is to avoid the 95 tolls by going around the Baltimore Beltway or going over the Conowingo Dam. If MD wanted to stop people from using those shunpikes, they'd just toll them too. For most people it just isn't worth it to go around the MD tolls.

There's no "technology" involved in catching violators. A cop just follows people who get on the Airport Access Road near the airport and watches to see if they stop at the airport or not. If they turn around and go the other way, instead of stopping to conduct "airport business", they get a ticket.

Also, I think you have your ideologies backwards: Tolls are a conservative solution to road-building- the individual pays for what he uses. Why do you think there are so many toll roads in Texas? The liberal alternative would be to raise the gas tax (i.e. the collective group shares the cost of the road).

[NC211]

Originally Posted by pcity

Tolls are a conservative solution to road-building- the individual pays for what he uses. Why do you think there are so many toll roads in Texas? The liberal alternative would be to raise the gas tax (i.e. the collective group shares the cost of the road).

Interestingly enough though, these tolls on the DTR and Greenway, aren't just for road-building, but rather are being jacked up at a tremendous rate to pay for WMATA's Silverline, something that the vast majority of us who are paying these tolls won't have any use for whatsoever. I'd love to use it when it's done, but the problem is the fact that my office in Tysons isn't even remotely close enough to be of benefit to the station stops. Nobody seems to be mentioning how the rider revenue will be deployed to benefit the actual train line....just how much they need to charge the drivers using the DRT and Greenway. I think that's a crook of you know what! Plus, not to mention that real estate taxes in certain zones around these new metro stations are about to be increased at a healthy level as well to help pay for it. Homes & Cars for all, to pay for a metro system for a few.

In addition, I thought I read somewhere that the debt package on the Greenway is some form of negative coupon bond structure, whereby after years of paying the debt service payments, you end up owing far more than you actually borrowed for the final payment. I saw this one time on a piece of CRE in the District in 2007. It's an almost guaranteed default scenario, a game of "hot potato" for the last pair of hands holding the bag at the end. Which, will ultimately be the state of VA.

[jillybean720]

I just use rt 7. All the time. I avoid the DTR since I have no Speed Pass and don't carry cash. Unless there's very heavy traffic, it only takes a few extra minutes, maybe even fewer than if you were to use the airport loop.

[Tom Lennox 70]

With the airport access road I'm talking driving from the DC Beltway TO Sterling, to the Route 28 and Church Road interchange by the way.

Now while we are talking about toll roads in the Dulles region.......how is the Greenway on a typical weekday morning if you are going WEST from the airport area to Leesburg. If its congestion pricing I wonder how much the tolls are. I am guessing obviously more people commute toward the east, but do many also commute to jobs inside Leesburg? There is a day I have to be in court at 8:30 AM on a Friday and would probably like to get to the Loundoun District Court by 8 AM so be safe. The cheapest hotel room I can find in Leesburg is $89 a night (there seems to be no Motel 6, Super 8, or local roadside motels in Leesburg while Days Inn is atypically expensive there) while around Dulles I found a room for $63 at a much nicer hotel....wondering if its worth it......also if I drive directly from Baltimore to Leesburg I take US 15 via Frederick while going to Dulles I take Interstate 495 to I guess either the Dulles Toll Road OR the airport access road. I know Route 7 can be very backed up with traffic.