John Geer case (Fairfax: crime, townhouses, neighborhoods)

[Old Guard]

Originally Posted by Carlingtonian

Read the article. Geer had some problems, clearly. But that doesn't mean he deserved to be shot to death. The only relevant point is that his hands were in the air and he wasn't threatening any of the officers.

Offc. Torres also seems to have had some problems that influenced his reaction; he had just had a fight with his wife on the phone (while he was at work) and a few months before blew up in an angry outburst at a prosecutor during an internal-affairs investigation. (The fact that he got angry indicated he was probably the one being investigated, so I wonder what it was he was being investigated for.)

To me it matters why police were called to check out a person and why that person is carrying loaded firearms around....especially in a town house community? Bullets go through walls.

I am not saying he deserved to be shot but you should not play with guns. I tried to find out why the police were called but at my glance the article seemed to gloss over it.

[airjay75]

Originally Posted by Old Guard

Why were the police called to this residence? Was this guy just inside reading bible stories to his children and cleaning his guns?

According to the article, his partner called 911 because they had had a domestic dispute and he was throwing her things out in the front yard. Either from his partner or from arriving at the scene, it sounds like it became apparent that this guy has a gun on him as well as other firearms in the house.

But, I really don't see that as the most relevant fact in he case. What is most relevant is what Officer Torres saw when he decided to fire. He says he saw Geer moving his hand from being up in the air to going towards his hip or a gun. It might be one thing if no other officer had their eyes on Geer, but there are 3 other officers who say that's not what they saw and that his hands never went out of the air. And then it sounds like Officer Torres immediately said "I'm sorry" seemingly recognizing that he made a mistake.

Unless the Post stories are completely skewing the facts and telling a one sided story, it seems hard to conclude anything but that Officer Torres made a lethal mistake and lied about it and that there was no significant effort by the Police Department to do anything about it even though it was pretty clear what had happened. I guess we'll have to wait for the courts to sort it out at this point.

[Carlingtonian]

Originally Posted by airjay75

According to the article, his partner called 911 because they had had a domestic dispute and he was throwing her things out in the front yard. Either from his partner or from arriving at the scene, it sounds like it became apparent that this guy has a gun on him as well as other firearms in the house.

Correct except for the part in bold. The report says he laid the gun on the ground after he arrived home and found the police there, in response to a call from his live-in girlfriend, who had called the police when she got home to find her stuff on the lawn.

Originally Posted by airjay75

... it seems hard to conclude anything but that Officer Torres made a lethal mistake and lied about it and that there was no significant effort by the Police Department to do anything about it ....

Bingo.

[airjay75]

Originally Posted by Carlingtonian

Correct except for the part in bold. The report says he laid the gun on the ground after he arrived home and found the police there, in response to a call from his live-in girlfriend, who had called the police when she got home to find her stuff on the lawn.

Yes, you are correct. Thanks for correcting my mistake. That's what I get for trying to recall everything I had just read before having my morning cup of coffee

[r small]

The cops had plenty of reason to be on the scene. A domestic dispute where one of the parties was known to have firearms. And the cops were handling the situation well. Excercising patience and restraint trying to talk the guy (Geer) down. And then Torres suddenly shoots the guy. And then later (much later as it turns out) we learn that Torres has had domestic issues himself. As well as anger or anger management issues. So that brings up the question: why was Torres even on that particular call? A hothead possibly unstable loose cannon in a situation requiring caution, patience, and restraint. No wonder Roessler didn't want to answer any questions.

[kieplangdu]

Originally Posted by r small

The cops had plenty of reason to be on the scene. A domestic dispute where one of the parties was known to have firearms. And the cops were handling the situation well. Excercising patience and restraint trying to talk the guy (Geer) down. And then Torres suddenly shoots the guy. And then later (much later as it turns out) we learn that Torres has had domestic issues himself. As well as anger or anger management issues. So that brings up the question: why was Torres even on that particular call? A hothead possibly unstable loose cannon in a situation requiring caution, patience, and restraint. No wonder Roessler didn't want to answer any questions.

They do now have any reasons to draw their weapons let a lone aim at John Geer. If Roessler is not out, the board of supervisors must be voted out. Roessler obviously does not give a damn about anybody except his cops.

[JD984]

Originally Posted by r small

The cops had plenty of reason to be on the scene. A domestic dispute where one of the parties was known to have firearms. And the cops were handling the situation well. Excercising patience and restraint trying to talk the guy (Geer) down. And then Torres suddenly shoots the guy. And then later (much later as it turns out) we learn that Torres has had domestic issues himself. As well as anger or anger management issues. So that brings up the question: why was Torres even on that particular call? A hothead possibly unstable loose cannon in a situation requiring caution, patience, and restraint. No wonder Roessler didn't want to answer any questions.

Yeah, from the articles it sounds like the leadership wasn't just trying to protect the cop who shot Geer, but also trying to avoid scrutiny of their own judgment in keeping him on duty and allowing someone with an obvious temper to work a volatile situation. Sounds like Torres should have been rescuing cats from trees until a competent professional was satisfied that he had his anger issues well under control.

[r small]

Originally Posted by kieplangdu

They do now have any reasons to draw their weapons let a lone aim at John Geer. If Roessler is not out, the board of supervisors must be voted out. Roessler obviously does not give a damn about anybody except his cops.

I don't know alot of details such as whether or not any of the other officers had their weapons drawn but I get the impression that the situation was under control until Torres fired his weapon. The other officers seemed to be handling the situation the way they should have.

[kieplangdu]

Originally Posted by r small

I don't know alot of details such as whether or not any of the other officers had their weapons drawn but I get the impression that the situation was under control until Torres fired his weapon. The other officers seemed to be handling the situation the way they should have.

They did, just that their fingers were not on the triggers. If the situation was under control why there was a need for to draw weapons.

[r small]

Originally Posted by kieplangdu

They did, just that their fingers were not on the triggers. If the situation was under control why there was a need for to draw weapons.

From what I have read Geer had a holstered weapon lying on the floor not far from where he was standing. So I don't think it would have been unreasonable for the officers to have their weapons drawn just in case Geer tried to go for his. But in any event it is clear that at the time he was shot Geer was not going for his weapon. Torres claimed Geer dropped his arms. All three of the other officers dispute that.