pros/cons re: working for the government (Fairfax: school, university)
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Chiming in on the "retirement" thing with the feds. The stats are staggering on the average retirement age. I'm knee right now in a Human Capital effort for my agency. We have recruitment problems, not necessarily retention problems. We have more than 50% of our population over the age of 50, 20%of that over the age of 60! Some facilities have noone under the age of 30! This is a very high tech engineering research environment, excellent programs that help students with summer jobs and even programs that pay for school, and give you a job when you graduate. And still have trouble getting people in the door.
I'd like to chime in a little on the downsides in corporate life. I'm going to the goverment from a Fortune 100 Heavy Manufacturing company. But, I also have 23 years in the Army and am aware of the way the government operates (at least the DoD).
As a Commodity Manager I deal with many companies, large and small, across a number of different industries. What I see all too often in my company is a lack of leadership or knowledge of what leadership looks like. Industry too often promotes technically proficient people in leadership roles that have no leadership potential at all. I find excellent engineers that have been promoted to lead teams, and have no ability whatsover, nor temperment or inclination.
Often, I find that the manufacturing locations (internal and external) that I deal with often have engineers and accountants elevated into plant leadership. Not to generalize too much, but people who generally work independantly may not be the best choices for leadership, but they are the highest paid and educated often times in the plant. Do they make good leaders? If you're surrounded by self-motivated performers, then the plant or organization will perform adequately. But can they lead the team to achieve more than the sum or there parts? Not likely.
So to answer the assertions that industry doesn't tolerate good performance and dumps those people quickly, I challenge that and say to look in your organizations for all of those type A performers who are elevated to leadership roles and cannot lead a diverse workforce to achieve. Giving them higher pay shouldn't also mean that they get leadership roles. If you want to keep them, pay them more, but hire the better leader (though not the stellar individual performer) to lead the entire team.
I had to bring to this up, but this is just happening too frequently. On almost everyone one of my FCIP applications, the response and results to the job application says the following:
"We have reviewed your application and found you qualified for the position listed above. However, you were not among the most highly qualified candidates. Therefore, your name will not be referred to the employing agency at this time."
So what exactly is the deal with this. Are federal government jobs only available to those who have inside connections (like many private firms) or are there "certain images" that the federal government want in their employees. Is it because I'm not out of college yet, because honestly, I'm graduating in freaking August, TWO MONTHS FROM NOW!!!!!! And I'm not trying to look like a tool and only being able to apply afterward while I'm unemployed since we all know how the Federal Govt isn't the quickest to hire. I just want to know how the Fed Govt REALLY determines their qualifications!
"We have reviewed your application and found you qualified for the position listed above. However, you were not among the most highly qualified candidates. Therefore, your name will not be referred to the employing agency at this time."
What that means is that you have met the minimum qualifications for the position, but that you didn't get the highest score based on your KSAs (knowledge, skills, abilities). I hope that when you apply for a government job, you are addressing the KSAs because if you count on a HR person to give you points on these based on your resume/application alone, you will be underserviced. Also, keep in mind that for some positions, applicants with veterans preference get 5 or 10 points added to their score. Also, based on disability, some veterans float to the top of a certificate (list of applicants referred) so it doesn't matter how much you score.
As far as your degree in two months, HR has to rate you based on your education at the time of the vacancy announcement's closing date. If you have not completed your degree, that is going to affect for what grade you qualify.
I had to bring to this up, but this is just happening too frequently. On almost everyone one of my FCIP applications, the response and results to the job application says the following:
"We have reviewed your application and found you qualified for the position listed above. However, you were not among the most highly qualified candidates. Therefore, your name will not be referred to the employing agency at this time."
So what exactly is the deal with this. Are federal government jobs only available to those who have inside connections (like many private firms) or are there "certain images" that the federal government want in their employees. Is it because I'm not out of college yet, because honestly, I'm graduating in freaking August, TWO MONTHS FROM NOW!!!!!! And I'm not trying to look like a tool and only being able to apply afterward while I'm unemployed since we all know how the Federal Govt isn't the quickest to hire. I just want to know how the Fed Govt REALLY determines their qualifications!
I could be wrong, but I took it to mean that you possess the basic qualifications to be hired (i.e. degree/experience, got a decent score on the questionnaire), but there are enough applicants who have better qualifications than they need to fill the openings (i.e. better questionnaire score, higher GPA, more desirable course background/experience). If it were purely the school thing, I think your application would have been kicked out earlier. For the positions I've been offered, qualification depended on my resume, questionnaire answers, and (if I got that far) my interview. Your application is scanned by computer programs long before anyone actually sees it, so if you haven't already it might help to utilize keywords. Look at how they describe the position in the announcement and work the same adjectives into your resume/answers.
Most of the jobs I've been applying to include Financial Management Specialist, Financial Management Analyst, Contract Specialist, and Budget Analyst, most of which have been FCIP. I just updated my resume to include more word-specific descriptions. However, I have an Economics degree and it seems that the only positions available for people with an economics degree are Research Assistants, which honestly, I have no interest of doing.
Part of the reason why I'm peeved at this is because it seems that if I can't even "qualify" for a Government job, my resume,educational, and experience would be seen as crap in any average corporate job, which is horrible enough due to the economy.
Most of the jobs I've been applying to include Financial Management Specialist, Financial Management Analyst, Contract Specialist, and Budget Analyst, most of which have been FCIP. I just updated my resume to include more word-specific descriptions. However, I have an Economics degree and it seems that the only positions available for people with an economics degree are Research Assistants, which honestly, I have no interest of doing.
Try looking at some paralegal positions, too, if you don't want to go the RA route. I know the FTC has an Honors Paralegal program designed for new grads and several of them have economics degrees. The lawyers love them because they don't die when numbers come up, but it's not nearly as quantitative as the RA program (i.e. it's a big deal if you even know how to do basic tasks in Excel).
Also, my approach to applying to jobs in school was to go for anything and everything remotely relevant. I figured I can get picky once I have a few offers on the table. Also, it's a lot easier looking for a job you really want while you're already bringing in an income and getting work experience.
Part of the reason why I'm peeved at this is because it seems that if I can't even "qualify" for a Government job, my resume,educational, and experience would be seen as crap in any average corporate job, which is horrible enough due to the economy.
It's my understanding that Federal Career Internship Program is very competitive for most agencies and they get some fairly stellar applicants (at least for financial jobs). I'm familiar with one of them because my friend is in it and he says that most have an MBA and graduated in the top 25% of their class. The only people who didn't go to a decent school or get really good grades were military/combat veterans with preferences. But he said a lot of them have good experience and had to go to lousy schools because of limited choices near their stations.
If you don't get in, you shouldn't feel bad. I'd still apply for them, but you should also be networking like crazy and looking for private sector and nonprofit jobs to ride out this economy.
If you are still unemployed by the fall, look for the honors programs that some agencies have (i.e. Dept. of Treasury, SEC, CIA), as that is their primary method of recruiting students straight from college. It looks like you missed the last cycle which usually ends in Oct./Nov.
Most of the jobs I've been applying to include Financial Management Specialist, Financial Management Analyst, Contract Specialist, and Budget Analyst, most of which have been FCIP. I just updated my resume to include more word-specific descriptions. However, I have an Economics degree and it seems that the only positions available for people with an economics degree are Research Assistants, which honestly, I have no interest of doing.
Some of those occupational series do not require a degree although you will find that most people in those positions have one. If you are not getting anywhere under FCIP, I suggest you apply for jobs that interest you under the 1100 series: Business and Industry Group (e.g., 1160 and 1101); the 500 series: Accounting and Budget Group; and the 300 series: General administrative group (this is a catch all series, but sometimes you find financial/budget analyst jobs under the 301 or 343 series). Not all agencies are created equal, but if you land an entry level professional job in a good agency, you will have the training/developmental opportunities available through the FCIP.
You don't mention if you are completing an undergraduate or graduate degree. If it is an undergraduate degree and you have a high GPA, you can qualify for a GS-7 (assuming no other experience). If you have a graduate degree (masters), you can apply for GS-9. Keywords sometime make all the difference in how applications are rated. BTW, if you are completing a graduate degree, I suggest you look into the Presidential Fellowship Program (formerly known as the PMI Program). GL!
If you don't get in, you shouldn't feel bad. I'd still apply for them, but you should also be networking like crazy and looking for private sector and nonprofit jobs to ride out this economy.
If you are still unemployed by the fall, look for the honors programs that some agencies have (i.e. Dept. of Treasury, SEC, CIA), as that is their primary method of recruiting students straight from college. It looks like you missed the last cycle which usually ends in Oct./Nov.
That's fine, but which Private Sector and Non-For-Profit companies & jobs should I be aiming for. I really didn't get a lot of good career advice through the university, all I heard is basically "it's not what you know, it's who you know!!!!!" It just got frustrating for me after a while and though I would be able to get a job in another part of the country that took merit more into credit than connections, but the recessions has stalled that plan. In addition, I heard many of those jobs pay an unreasonably low amount of money for a person living in the DC area, which is why I've avoided applying for those positions thus far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlv311
Some of those occupational series do not require a degree although you will find that most people in those positions have one. If you are not getting anywhere under FCIP, I suggest you apply for jobs that interest you under the 1100 series: Business and Industry Group (e.g., 1160 and 1101); the 500 series: Accounting and Budget Group; and the 300 series: General administrative group (this is a catch all series, but sometimes you find financial/budget analyst jobs under the 301 or 343 series). Not all agencies are created equal, but if you land an entry level professional job in a good agency, you will have the training/developmental opportunities available through the FCIP.
You don't mention if you are completing an undergraduate or graduate degree. If it is an undergraduate degree and you have a high GPA, you can qualify for a GS-7 (assuming no other experience). If you have a graduate degree (masters), you can apply for GS-9. Keywords sometime make all the difference in how applications are rated. BTW, if you are completing a graduate degree, I suggest you look into the Presidential Fellowship Program (formerly known as the PMI Program). GL!
I'm an undergrad economics major with a 3.2 GPA (I thought that was decent, but it doesn't seem good enough for what even the lowest position wants). And how do I know which agency is "good" so that I won't just have a bunch of job offers from crappy organizations.
In addition, I have been "accepted" and "highly qualified" by some organizations, but I have not heard anything further from these same organizations. What should I do in those cases?
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