In Search of Stick Shift Driving Schools... (rent, neighborhood)

[tgbwc]

Originally Posted by CAVA1990

What's next, a bike riding school?

I don't know. My wife tried for weeks and gave up over the winter. I'm going to try to get her out to the school parking lots again. I'm thinking maybe we can borrow a newer car to practice on. Maybe they are easier? The one we are using is 43 years old.

[oneasterisk]

Originally Posted by CAVA1990

What's next, a bike riding school?

Oh that's easy. Find yourself a nice hill and just go down it. A couple of scraped knees/elbows and you'll get the hang of it

[CAVA1990]

Originally Posted by tgbwc

I don't know. My wife tried for weeks and gave up over the winter. I'm going to try to get her out to the school parking lots again. I'm thinking maybe we can borrow a newer car to practice on. Maybe they are easier? The one we are using is 43 years old.

Yes, a newer one would be a bit more forgiving.

[flrnova]

An old car will have a cable clutch where there is more travel and the onset of the friction point is less sudden. With a hydraulic clutch then it's easier to stall the car for someone who is not used to it.

So I would argue that an "old" car would be easier for a beginner. Although for stop and go traffic the hydraulic clutch is a blessing.

But old is going to be quite old (1980s or older) unless it is a serious econobox. Two of my cars from 1990 and 1993 both have hydraulic clutches. My first car (a 1986) had a cable clutch. I am sure that older higher end, especially American, cars had hydraulic clutches.

I would buy a beater and practice rather than a driving school if you are worried about harming an expensive or new car. It's not something that you can learn by being instructed for more than 15 min. It can only be acquired by practice. Err on the side of stalling and you won't harm the car.

[car54]

Originally Posted by flrnova

...I am sure that older higher end, especially American, cars had hydraulic clutches....

Not in my experience....my '67 Vette uses linkage rods and a bellcrank, as did the '66 GTO and '69 Camaro I had years ago. If hydraulics were used in high end 60's American cars, I never saw one...don't know about imports of that era.

[srahx]

I took driving lessons at Keith's years ago out of Burke and they were great and I learned how to drive stick really well and how to do it on hills, etc. I highly recommend them.

[South Jersey Styx]

Originally Posted by Pequeño_Bonsai

Thanks to all of you for the information. While practicing in a parking lot would be fine... I'm going to be purchasing a 6 speed and not many rental car companies can offer those to you.

Actually, when you're learning on a stick, shifting up and down on the first few gears will be the toughest (i.e., learning how to stop at lights, turning corners, etc.). So you could learn on a 4-, 5-, or 6-speed vehicle.

There's good advice from posters here. My $0.02:

* Practice starting-stopping and then starting-stopping again and again and again. Try driving around neighborhoods that aren't so busy. Like everyone said--practice, practice, practice.
* Hills--try small hills first. Do lots of those. And then start practicing on the bigger hills.
* Feel the vehicles. Different vehicles feel different. Clutches feel different. It takes time to get used to different cars. The older cars also will not have an indicator telling you when to shift which means you have to listen to the engine and feel when it's time to shift.
* Think smooth. The key to the clutch-gas relationship is a smooth transition--letting up/giving gas--simultaneously. That's why some people rock, choke, sputter --the transition is not smooth and they try to force it.
* Confidence. The better you get the more confidence you'll get!
* I think it's easier to learn on a "hard" vehicle, one you can get a little rough with. If you can master that, you can drive any kind of clutch.

BTW, I am not sure where you're planning to drive your 6-speed vehicle --whether it's open-road driving or in the city on a daily basis. In the city, you'll be doing lots of shifting. In fact, when I bought my first car (a 5-speed Honda) driving in stop-and-go traffic in the city on a hot-humid day was awful.

Actually, I took my dad's 1980s Chevy pick-up truck out over the weekend. I hadn't driven a manual vehicle in awhile but it felt great! Nothing delicate about this car and I felt like a true-blue hick driving it around (oops I forgot I am one!)

Good luck and happy driving!

[flrnova]

A search shows that the Ford Mustang appears to have had a hydraulic clutch starting 1965 unless that's a retrofit. I also stumbled across a press release that Dana would start supplying hydraulic clutches to VW starting with the 2000 model for low end models, which are not sold in the US.

I was just guessing since I have never owned any old American cars. It's just my intuition since American cars led with innovation in those days.

This discussion is a bit odd because in the rest of the world you can't get by or probably get a license without knowing how to drive a manual.

[South Jersey Styx]

Originally Posted by flrnova

This discussion is a bit odd because in the rest of the world you can't get by or probably get a license without knowing how to drive a manual.

Interesting comment. When I was in Greece a few years ago, our group decided to rent a van. Nothing was available except those with stick shifts. The car company said they had very few automatic cars and they rent first and fast.

Since no one else in the group knew how to drive a manual vehicle, I ended up driving everyone around. Had a great time except the small problem of reading street signs in Greek!

[qwertman]

It's not hard to learn how to drive a stick shift sufficiently.

However, I have found that some people drive stick shift better then others. A lot of people I've ridden with are unable to shift smoothly without using the clutch "more then optimally" to smooth out shifts, and I don't believe I've ever ridden with anyone who could properly rev match a downshift besides race car drivers and truck drivers. Hell, a lot of race car drivers aren't even good at it.

However, sufficient technique should be good enough to drive safely and not break your car. A bunch of stalling and a few grinds won't kill the car. At most, you might get less miles out of your clutch and wear your syncros a little faster, but even so they should last as long as an average automatic transmission and cheaper to repair too. With good technique I believe it's very possible for a clutch and manual transmission to last the life of the car, like 250000+ miles.

I don't think buying an old car to practice on is necessary. If anything, I've found old cars often have worn syncros which make it more difficult to downshift without rev-matching (a more advanced technique) and without learning this technique you might have to avoid certain downshifts altogether.

If you pick me up in your car I'd be glad to give you a few lessons.

Check out http://www.standardshift.com for some good info.