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Where on EARTH did you get your stats on Police Officers? They are a diverse group of people but a major factor in even entering an Academy is the physical fitness exam. Not many 'geeks' had the prowess to pass this portion of the test. While IN an Academy the Candidates have to undertake mental health exams along with their LE coursework and PT.
In short- Academies and LEA are looking for well-rounded individuals with a health sense of sense - in order to withstand the barrage of insults and threats from those citizens who feel that 'they' are 'too special' to follow the Law.
So, someone whips out their cell before they are parked - well they HAVE broken the Law if they did not use a hands-free device. Tags are expired or you were '6 miles' over the speed limit? Still breaking a LAW and a Police Officer is SUPPOSED to enforce the Law- not just the ones you feel they should!
Tell 'em. You are absolutely right. The law is the law and it is their job to enforce it, not interpret it.
Good. You know how many pedestrian traffic deaths Honolulu has every year? I was a valet in Waikiki for 2 years and it took my 20 minutes to bring a car around because the pedestrians couldn't wait and cross when they had right of way... instead they walk right in front of cars, back up traffic, and make people slam on their brakes. I have no sympathy for people that can't do something so simple as crossing at a marked crosswalk, especially when they are everywhere.
Well I was riding a bicycle and making a left turn on a green light, but I was a couple feet from the cross walk that had a red light. The officer yelled and told me to stop while I was making the turn. He then began to bully me and ask if I had stolen the bicycle and threatened to throw me in jail for jaywalking and possibly being in possession of a stolen bicycle. I too hate jaywalkers who expect cars to stop for them, but if the coast is clear, I have zero problem with crossing a against a red light. Honolulu is overly automobile-centric and some crosswalk lights take way too long to change. Moreover, one should not be threatened to be arrested for such a minor infraction, let alone get a ticket for it. The city should make provisions to accommodate pedestrians and bicyclists to encourage people to get out of their cars.
Tell 'em. You are absolutely right. The law is the law and it is their job to enforce it, not interpret it.
True, but 1) the laws are enforced haphazardly, 2) many officers are on a power trip and act outside the law and make unlawful threats (they also frequently drive recklessly), 3) many of the laws punish people for non-violent and minor infractions which take away from punishing violent and serious criminals.
Number 3 isn't really the fault of the cops, but the laws on non-violent and minor crimes is way too strict in the US. Americans are treated like babies. The US is one of a handful of nations in the world where the min legal drinking age is 21. Drinking in public can get you arrested in the US, while in many countries it's as legal as drinking water in public. Jaywalking is seen as business as usual in many other nations, while in the vast majority in the US, it's a crime punishable by fine or imprisonment. Did you know that the US has the highest number of prisoners per capita in the world by far? All those non-violent prisoners who committed petty crimes are equals with the violent criminals and have tarnished records for the rest of their lives. These criminalized people will have a nearly impossible time finding employment or housing, and will live a very marginal life forever with their misdemeanors and felonies. Their options overall will be limited. Some will get lucky and get a decent break, but most will commit crimes in order to survive and end up in prison again.
But most people in the US believe in getting "tough on crime" without trying to look at the root causes of people committing crimes and the implications of criminalization. Americans seem to operate on the "give him the harshest penalty possible for inconveniencing me" principle to "show him what's good for them and to make an example out of him". Okay you hate it when people jaywalk, fair enough. Jaywalkers may cause traffic, harm themselves, or harm others. But, do you think criminalizing such behavior in a serious manner is the most effective way detouring such behavior, and do you think resources used to enforce jaywalking laws are the best usage of the finite resource of law enforcement.
For me, criminalizing such people is discrimination against pedestrians, which in turn is discriminatory against poor people. Moreover, if a car hits a pedestrian and kills them, the driver is let go very easily even if the driver is at fault. This again is highly discriminatory against peds and poor people. Many Americans have very little regard for the pedestrian and see them as less-than impediments to their driving. Furthermore, the built environment of the vast majority of US cities is built to accommodate cars at the expense of other modes of transportation. Walking in most cities is extremely stressful, dangerous, and time consuming. Writing tickets for jaywalking does very little to make the streets safer but does a lot to criminalize people (esp poor people). Meanwhile, car drivers are giving free reign to drive their death mobiles at ungodly speeds causing numerous deaths a year.
If you are truly are for enforcing laws, then you would be for drivers get automatic fines for every time a person drives 1 or more miles per hour over the speed limit. Perhaps every car can be fitted with a device that tracks drivers' speed and for every second one drivers over the speed limit, they get fined $20. But no, you'd probably scream and cry over such harsh enforcement of the law. Therefore, anyone who argues "the law is the law" but would be against my suggested speed limit enforcement are being hypocrites and are full of hot air.
Lastly, although it is the job of the officer to enforce the law, they must use discretion when enforcing it. No police officer knows every single law and every police officer must decide whether or not it's worth the time to enforce certain laws as not every single law that is within the officers' jurisdiction is enforceable.
True, but 1) the laws are enforced haphazardly, 2) many officers are on a power trip and act outside the law and make unlawful threats (they also frequently drive recklessly), 3) many of the laws punish people for non-violent and minor infractions which take away from punishing violent and serious criminals.
Number 3 isn't really the fault of the cops, but the laws on non-violent and minor crimes is way too strict in the US. Americans are treated like babies. The US is one of a handful of nations in the world where the min legal drinking age is 21. Drinking in public can get you arrested in the US, while in many countries it's as legal as drinking water in public. Jaywalking is seen as business as usual in many other nations, while in the vast majority in the US, it's a crime punishable by fine or imprisonment. Did you know that the US has the highest number of prisoners per capita in the world by far? All those non-violent prisoners who committed petty crimes are equals with the violent criminals and have tarnished records for the rest of their lives. These criminalized people will have a nearly impossible time finding employment or housing, and will live a very marginal life forever with their misdemeanors and felonies. Their options overall will be limited. Some will get lucky and get a decent break, but most will commit crimes in order to survive and end up in prison again.
But most people in the US believe in getting "tough on crime" without trying to look at the root causes of people committing crimes and the implications of criminalization. Americans seem to operate on the "give him the harshest penalty possible for inconveniencing me" principle to "show him what's good for them and to make an example out of him". Okay you hate it when people jaywalk, fair enough. Jaywalkers may cause traffic, harm themselves, or harm others. But, do you think criminalizing such behavior in a serious manner is the most effective way detouring such behavior, and do you think resources used to enforce jaywalking laws are the best usage of the finite resource of law enforcement.
For me, criminalizing such people is discrimination against pedestrians, which in turn is discriminatory against poor people. Moreover, if a car hits a pedestrian and kills them, the driver is let go very easily even if the driver is at fault. This again is highly discriminatory against peds and poor people. Many Americans have very little regard for the pedestrian and see them as less-than impediments to their driving. Furthermore, the built environment of the vast majority of US cities is built to accommodate cars at the expense of other modes of transportation. Walking in most cities is extremely stressful, dangerous, and time consuming. Writing tickets for jaywalking does very little to make the streets safer but does a lot to criminalize people (esp poor people). Meanwhile, car drivers are giving free reign to drive their death mobiles at ungodly speeds causing numerous deaths a year.
If you are truly are for enforcing laws, then you would be for drivers get automatic fines for every time a person drives 1 or more miles per hour over the speed limit. Perhaps every car can be fitted with a device that tracks drivers' speed and for every second one drivers over the speed limit, they get fined $20. But no, you'd probably scream and cry over such harsh enforcement of the law. Therefore, anyone who argues "the law is the law" but would be against my suggested speed limit enforcement are being hypocrites and are full of hot air.
Lastly, although it is the job of the officer to enforce the law, they must use discretion when enforcing it. No police officer knows every single law and every police officer must decide whether or not it's worth the time to enforce certain laws as not every single law that is within the officers' jurisdiction is enforceable.
Im not gonna address that whole rant, it lacks any coherence, it is mostly not relevant to the discussion, and I dont have the time. To put it shortly, I would have no problem with them enforcing the letter of the law on speed limits. I did not own a car in Honolulu so all of your assumptions about me are false, I merely worked as a valet. Your sterotypes about americans are irrelevant to a discussion about jaywalking in Honolulu. Cops enforcing the laws without discretion are fair and unbiased cops. Cops that let you off because they know you, or you were in a hurry, or you showed them your boobs are not fair.
My stance on jaywalking in waikiki:
There is a crosswalk with a light on it that tells you when it is safe to cross.
There is rarely more than 30 seconds between opportunities to safely cross.
If there is no light at the crosswalk, the pedestrian has the right of way and cars must yield.
Most crosswalks in waikiki have a light. So just wait for the ****ing light and everyone stays safe, the traffic moves, and nobody gets a ticket. It is not hard.
Whether you like it or not, waikiki has streets where people drive and need to get where they are going. The system in place is that the cars go when the light is green and the people go when the little guy on the sign tells them to. It is not complex, it does not discriminate against the poor. The laws on the books already protect the pedestrian in almost all situations. JUST WAIT FOR THE LIGHT AND CROSS AT A MARKED CROSSWALK!
Well I was riding a bicycle and making a left turn on a green light, but I was a couple feet from the cross walk that had a red light. The officer yelled and told me to stop while I was making the turn. He then began to bully me and ask if I had stolen the bicycle and threatened to throw me in jail for jaywalking and possibly being in possession of a stolen bicycle. I too hate jaywalkers who expect cars to stop for them, but if the coast is clear, I have zero problem with crossing a against a red light. Honolulu is overly automobile-centric and some crosswalk lights take way too long to change. Moreover, one should not be threatened to be arrested for such a minor infraction, let alone get a ticket for it. The city should make provisions to accommodate pedestrians and bicyclists to encourage people to get out of their cars.
I don't agree with the bullying or the threatening, and I agree that it can be scary to ride a bike in honolulu. I assumed you were a pedestrian crossing against a light when you posted that. My mistake. Bikes need to obey the traffic laws as well though, when you are in the street you are treated like a vehicle as far as I understand.
The problem with saying "when the coast is clear I have zero problems crossing agianst a red light" is that A) you may not see someone turning out of a shopping center etc... and B) a car cannot do that, why should you be able to?. People are not always as aware of what is going on around them as they think they are, best thing is to just wait for the light. 10 seconds of waiting is not worth a life.
Honolulu has designated bike routes where vehicles must give you space on the side of the road. Young street for example which runs parallel to king and beretania. There is also a bike path that runs down date street, bike lanes down university and all the way up kalaianaole highway to hawaii kai. It is not great infrastructure, but you can get by just fine on a bike and do it legally. You can view the cities plans here:
Im not saying all cops are bad but their are quite a few wipes that shouldnt be cops. Without their badge & gun they are nothing. Over the yrs i have seen cops harass innocent people. I was one of them. The united states is wayyyyy over-lawed. I blame the wack job dirty coward politicans for that.
Last edited by 7th generation; 06-18-2010 at 04:49 PM..
Of all the places I have driven a vehicle in, Hawaii is the strictest one when it comes to stopping over the crosswalk and you will notice that locals simply don't do it.
Of all the places I have driven a vehicle in, Hawaii is the strictest one when it comes to stopping over the crosswalk and you will notice that locals simply don't do it.
Seattle & los angeles are quite strict as well.
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