moving to hawaii (real estate, rent, lawyers)

[highlife2]

Is there good near or right at 6 figure jobs for process/chemical engineers at the refinery in Oahu. We are honeymooning here now and are talking back and forth about moving. Its 20 below 0 with wind chill where we are from right now lol.

Would not move before securing a job, also my wife would have to get a job at around 40k a year in tourism. I am going to spend a day or half day in Oahu net working, hopefully at a refinery tour. At the very least I hope to get some business cards because its hard to get facility engineer contact info directly from chevron or tesoro.

I am also a pilot and there seem to be a fair number of air ports around but would be worried about climate controlled hangar costs since Hawaii will totally destroy a plane over time if its not hangared in climate control, but flying your own plane is the ideal way to island hop. I am going on a glider trip in Oahu so I will ask there as well and hope to get some more business cards.

[whtviper1]

Originally Posted by highlife2

Is there good near or right at 6 figure jobs for process/chemical engineers at the refinery in Oahu. We are honeymooning here now and are talking back and forth about moving. Its 20 below 0 with wind chill where we are from right now lol.

Would not move before securing a job, also my wife would have to get a job at around 40k a year in tourism. I am going to spend a day or half day in Oahu net working, hopefully at a refinery tour. At the very least I hope to get some business cards because its hard to get facility engineer contact info directly from chevron or tesoro.

I am also a pilot and there seem to be a fair number of air ports around but would be worried about climate controlled hangar costs since Hawaii will totally destroy a plane over time if its not hangared in climate control, but flying your own plane is the ideal way to island hop. I am going on a glider trip in Oahu so I will ask there as well and hope to get some more business cards.

Sigh.....

[hotzcatz]

You know how when you start to work a swap with someone and you kind of think it is worth one amount and it turns out the other guy thinks it's worth so little that you don't even have a starting point? This sort of reminds me of that. There just isn't a starting point here. I just don't see hopes and expectations getting anywhere near reality. Can we change reality? I doubt it. Can we change his hopes and expectations?

[highlife2]

Originally Posted by hotzcatz

You know how when you start to work a swap with someone and you kind of think it is worth one amount and it turns out the other guy thinks it's worth so little that you don't even have a starting point? This sort of reminds me of that. There just isn't a starting point here. I just don't see hopes and expectations getting anywhere near reality. Can we change reality? I doubt it. Can we change his hopes and expectations?

From what I understand the cost of living and taxes are somewhat comparable to where I am from so it would have to at least be a lateral move plus an upgrade that would offset the state income tax so that I am netting the same amount. Never hurts to try, but on the other hand I am a degreed licensed professional engineer so I'm not going to work for free either. At the very least hopefully I can get a tour and a business card.

If 6 digits is so high its incomprehensible then its no wonder people of Hawaii are living in near poverty because the rent and real estate costs are comparable to anchorage Alaska which is very expensive.

[whtviper1]

While not impossible - it is very difficult and highly unlikely to make a lateral or better move in terms of income comparable to where one has on the mainland. It isnt a realistic expectation.

[hotzcatz]

There is a question of if your license would even transfer to Hawaii. Not many of them do, believe it or not. You'd probably have to retake a lot of the engineering tests to get the license in Hawaii.

But, assume your license is valid in Hawaii. There are at least a dozen other engineers who want to get out of the snow and cold, too. Are you willing to work for less than they are? That is part of the "Paradise Tax" that everyone talks about. Folks are willing to work for absurd salaries just so they can struggle in Hawaii. You don't have to run faster than the bear, you just have to run faster than the other guy. In this case, you have to be willing to work for less than the other guy.

There is also the pressure of engineers from other countries. An engineer from the Philippines is coming from a work environment where half or even one quarter of a mainland salary will seem like a huge amount. They are also willing to live in multi-generational homes where they can make that level of salary work, too.

There is a very limited supply of engineering jobs, especially process/chemical so if something happened to your job, it is unlikely you'd be able to replace it. That just happened to an engineer who lived at the end of our street. He got back from a mainland vacation last year to find out he'd been "downsized" when his company was bought out by a mainland firm. He got a pink slip as soon as he walked in the door and there isn't a comparable job for him anywhere on this island. He had to put his house on the market (still no buyers) and quickly move to the mainland where there will hopefully be some work in his field. In the meantime, his techie guy who worked under him is astonished at the lack of an engineer and is wondering how long until the whole place falls apart and if/when it does, will the mainland company care? It has the feel of something being bought by the bean counters to make something look good on the balance sheet and not something being bought as an ongoing company.

However, being a licensed professional engineer, if they have a need for your variety of engineer, you are at least very likely to at least be considered for the job. There are a lot of jobs where mainland folks aren't even considered since someone local would be able to do the work. Local folks are usually preferred over mainland hires since the local folks understand how things are done here and aren't as likely to disappear off to the mainland within a year.

Which then brings us up to your wife finding a job for around $24 an hour in the hospitality business. I haven't a clue what sort of job that would be. I'm guessing it would either require some really hefty tips or some sort of higher education?

[highlife2]

So really the only way to live comfortably here is to retire here with a ton of money, I am guessing that is what most of these large homes are around the island. I could go with that, maybe in 20 years if we can manage to put away 5-6 million we could retire here. Good education on the engineering jobs, its kinda like that in alaska but I am the local there and have the license and so forth. I am still going to take a tour of the refinery if I can to see a cat cracker and a fractionator.

Also an alaska PE is the hardest to get (due to arctic engineering requirements) and is transferable anywhere as far as I know. There are some non-exam based PE's that come out of texas but they are a joke.

[winkosmosis]

The hospitality jobs I've seen pay $8/hr or so

[hotzcatz]

We do have a lot of folks who retire here with a lot of money. Or buy a second home with an income from someplace with a much higher economic scale than here. Which puts a huge amount of pressure on the available housing for folks who live here but I haven't an answer on how to fix that. Folks with big houses and second homes do provide jobs for some of the folks living here, though, since those big houses need maintenance, cleaners, etc. More low paying jobs but at least they are jobs.

[whtviper1]

And - to be fair as I post about the low wages, there are people who make a lot of money in Oahu. Plenty of Doctors and Lawyers - I live next door to Hawaiian Telcom downtown and the CEO in 2010 made $6.72 Million in 2010.