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bowling green has a lot more going for it than many of the towns in NW Ohio (one of which I grew up in). but the planning mentality in all of NW Ohio, sparing Toledo, is to really not plan but just let developers do whatever and be grateful for the "economic growth." The population is small enough that this isn't a huge deal, but it has created some asphalt wastelands and residential subdivisions that are generally a drain on overall city budgets.
Again, having grown up around there, in the past three or so years I am noticing that these towns are more and more interested in improving their downtown streetscapes and livability around the historic town center. I am noticing a backlash against wal-mart and fast food. Not huge but it is there. Stuff that was going on in larger areas 20 or 30 years ago.
I think it is hard to see where things are in small town ohio without realizing the context. Even 15 years ago, many of our towns didn't have wal mart or fast food or sprawling subdivisions so it seemed like a sign of great progress to get these things. It made it seem like we were keeping up with the rest of the country when suddenly you could buy a brand new ticky tacky house for the price of some old house near the center of town. Hell, even the 'new subdivision' was only a few short minutes driving from your old house on Walnut Street. As a shout out to the ticky tacky, even today many of the small towns have local builders whose quality substantially outshines drees or ryan homes.
I think the bottom line is that the backlash against bad development is about 15 years behind where it is in Columbus or Cincinnati and about 25 or 30 years behind where it is in Chicago. But, the seeds of it are there and I am seeing it. For example in Defiance, Ohio, there are major restorations going on around downtown, houses that even ten years ago could be bought for 20k are nicely restored and selling for 200k or more. Small towns can change fast, for the better or worse.
There isn't out of the box thinking regarding development in northwest ohio towns. There may be visionaries around but not enough to make big waves. So, to some extent, we have to wait for the box to change, then wait ten more years and those concepts will make their way to Ohio towns. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. It is what it is and we should do what we can in our community and accept how things are.
I'm impressed if anyone managed to make sense of my ramblings. I'll try to organize these better for some future thread about small town ohio.
I agree that Ohio is a bit behind when it comes to urban planning and progressive development, but I don't think it's really apples-to-apples comparing suburban Chicago with rural Ohio. Also, Chicago's suburbs greatly differ - Winnetka, Schaumburg, and Calumet City for example are worlds apart.
Also, I would take Ohio's government over the Illinois government these days. Illinois is in some seriously bad shape financially. There is certainly not much limiting sprawl in Chicagoland either, even if some communities try to make it pretty. I personally think suburban Chicago is a nightmare with a few exceptions like older towns built around Metra stops and the North Shore areas.
One advantage Illinois does have in “smart growth” is that Chicago dominates the state, so there is a greater push for urban initiatives and transit than in Ohio.
Progmac, I made sense of your post and that does put everything into perspective. I get what you are saying about the excitement of and pride in the new growth, and that there isn't yet the full understanding of the implications, or learned that you have to sometimes confront these developers. Its just too bad that some of those legacy decisions will have to be dealt with / worked around for the next 50 years. But, I like your statement that change can come quickly. When there is agreement, cooperation, and dedication to making something happen, I agree that small town communities can move fast on their goals. I've seen that happen.
I was thinking too, that with regard to the Northwest Indiana suburbs, when you are part of a cluster of 200 suburbs and get the same newspaper that all these communities are mentioned in, you can't help but see what is happening. Its natural for suburbs to want to mirror each others' progress (even if one of the suburbs is far to the northwest of the city and another is far to the southeast.) Its sort of like someone paves the way and it makes it easier for others to follow. We don't have that kind of momentum here; we sure can't use anything in Detroit as an example; although we could notice what Ann Arbor is/has been doing.
Out of the four states (Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio) I think I would take Indiana's government with regard to financial matters. They're more conservative than I would like, and I am completely against their stance on environmental issues. But they do manage well. They work very efficiently and several of the towns/cities that I know of seem to have followed the state's lead in financial scrupulousness.
I don't need to ease up on anything because there was never a put down anywhere in my post. I mentioned Toledo because at the end of Summer's post, he/she mentioned the city. Last I checked, BG and Toledo were both in the same metro. I never mentioned both cities downtowns and how they compare. Yet you make it sound like a SW Ohio comparison. Toledo has its downtown, BG has its downtown.
Never mind, Beavercreek. I shouldn't have said anything at all. I need to learn to keep quiet. I don't consider myself a troll, but maybe I come off that way sometimes. Summer22 felt I understood him correctly.
I agree that Ohio is a bit behind when it comes to urban planning and progressive development, but I don't think it's really apples-to-apples comparing suburban Chicago with rural Ohio. Also, Chicago's suburbs greatly differ - Winnetka, Schaumburg, and Calumet City for example are worlds apart.
Also, I would take Ohio's government over the Illinois government these days. Illinois is in some seriously bad shape financially. There is certainly not much limiting sprawl in Chicagoland either, even if some communities try to make it pretty. I personally think suburban Chicago is a nightmare with a few exceptions like older towns built around Metra stops and the North Shore areas.
One advantage Illinois does have in “smart growth” is that Chicago dominates the state, so there is a greater push for urban initiatives and transit than in Ohio.
Governor Strickland is doing a good job of balancing the state budget. I was suprised in Illinois. Outside of Chicago there is a lot of extreme poverty; especially in the southern part of the state. Some of the midsized cities seemed to be hurting too. Chicago though, what a beaut! I was there for the 4th. Good times!
Summer, I see where you are getting at. I didn't read everything in which you recently wrote (I am tired here lol) but I appreciate your concern. NW Ohio needs people like yourself to stay and give it a boost. Wait until this recession is over. There are already some great things happening in Toledo, and in the future, I see things really taking off. Keep the faith.
bowling green has a lot more going for it than many of the towns in NW Ohio (one of which I grew up in). but the planning mentality in all of NW Ohio, sparing Toledo, is to really not plan but just let developers do whatever and be grateful for the "economic growth." The population is small enough that this isn't a huge deal, but it has created some asphalt wastelands and residential subdivisions that are generally a drain on overall city budgets.
Again, having grown up around there, in the past three or so years I am noticing that these towns are more and more interested in improving their downtown streetscapes and livability around the historic town center. I am noticing a backlash against wal-mart and fast food. Not huge but it is there. Stuff that was going on in larger areas 20 or 30 years ago.
I think it is hard to see where things are in small town ohio without realizing the context. Even 15 years ago, many of our towns didn't have wal mart or fast food or sprawling subdivisions so it seemed like a sign of great progress to get these things. It made it seem like we were keeping up with the rest of the country when suddenly you could buy a brand new ticky tacky house for the price of some old house near the center of town. Hell, even the 'new subdivision' was only a few short minutes driving from your old house on Walnut Street. As a shout out to the ticky tacky, even today many of the small towns have local builders whose quality substantially outshines drees or ryan homes.
I think the bottom line is that the backlash against bad development is about 15 years behind where it is in Columbus or Cincinnati and about 25 or 30 years behind where it is in Chicago. But, the seeds of it are there and I am seeing it. For example in Defiance, Ohio, there are major restorations going on around downtown, houses that even ten years ago could be bought for 20k are nicely restored and selling for 200k or more. Small towns can change fast, for the better or worse.
There isn't out of the box thinking regarding development in northwest ohio towns. There may be visionaries around but not enough to make big waves. So, to some extent, we have to wait for the box to change, then wait ten more years and those concepts will make their way to Ohio towns. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. It is what it is and we should do what we can in our community and accept how things are.
I'm impressed if anyone managed to make sense of my ramblings. I'll try to organize these better for some future thread about small town ohio.
This is all opinion and one person's perspective, so take it lightly -
I've been frustrated this summer with my city in northwest Ohio. Just some examples -
-Realizing there's no shade trees here in Bowling Green, except in the "old section" which comprises less than 1/3 of the city. (Yet, we're still a "Tree City USA.")
- Realizing how bad the landlords are here. Everyone I know has been having trouble with negotiating leases, problems with the apartments themselves, getting the runaround about when they can move in, and basically just dealing with complacent companies and employees that don't really care about customer service. It's not a modern style of management, and there's a monopoly here where probably half the units in the city are owned by two companies.
- Realizing how little there is for kids. There's no skateboard park, no Boys & Girls Club, no YMCA... things that I take for granted elsewhere.
- Realizing that our most popular industry is bars. There's seventeen of them, with all the problems that you would typically associate with there being seventeen bars in a fairly small city.
I'm frustrated by lack of smart growth, lack of diversification, no jobs, no effort by municipal government to work for grants and jobs, the lack of quality affordable housing, and just the general attitude of complacency.
I'm spoiled, admittedly. I grew up spending lots of time in the Chicago suburbs which have a lot of resources, a lot of municipal investment, and actually a very progressive outlook. Even if governmental decisions for growth and progress weren't always right or weren't always popular, they were always doing SOMETHING and working on something. They were cities/suburbs/villages on the move. I didn't appreciate that area then, but, I do now.
This area is NOT on the move. The only real investor here is the University.
To me it seems like a 1970's outlook on how to do things, how to run a successful city, sitting on its laurels and relying on tradition. Invest in downtown (which they did in 2000 with a terrific grant), built a new school, allow the University to build however they please without dissent... but there's no out-of-the box thinking. And no master plan. Its as if they don't realize that the focal point of the city is not the downtown, anymore. There's four other quadrants of the city that have just as much shopping and residents -- and very little municipal investment.
Just frustrated -- and thinking that this area is going to be pretty stagnant for a long time if the economy continues how it is, especially if no one in government does something insightful to promote thoughtful development.
There's similar thinking throughout this area. A casino, ballpark, and arena in Toledo will help the downtown to an extent, but, that doesn't really address the needs of the other 90% of the city.
Leaders here are afraid of making waves, I guess.
Shade trees often fall and damage property, skateparks will typically tend to hurt a neighborhood far more than help (we got one in our neighborhood back in KY and had to move because it attracted a lot of drug activity... I'm talking people getting mugged and gunshots)
As for bars and monopolies on property... Welcome to every single college town in the USA.
On that note, BG is a nice little town, people are friendly.
This is all opinion and one person's perspective, so take it lightly -
I've been frustrated this summer with my city in northwest Ohio. Just some examples -
-Realizing there's no shade trees here in Bowling Green, except in the "old section" which comprises less than 1/3 of the city. (Yet, we're still a "Tree City USA.")
- Realizing how bad the landlords are here. Everyone I know has been having trouble with negotiating leases, problems with the apartments themselves, getting the runaround about when they can move in, and basically just dealing with complacent companies and employees that don't really care about customer service. It's not a modern style of management, and there's a monopoly here where probably half the units in the city are owned by two companies.
- Realizing how little there is for kids. There's no skateboard park, no Boys & Girls Club, no YMCA... things that I take for granted elsewhere.
- Realizing that our most popular industry is bars. There's seventeen of them, with all the problems that you would typically associate with there being seventeen bars in a fairly small city.
I'm frustrated by lack of smart growth, lack of diversification, no jobs, no effort by municipal government to work for grants and jobs, the lack of quality affordable housing, and just the general attitude of complacency.
I'm spoiled, admittedly. I grew up spending lots of time in the Chicago suburbs which have a lot of resources, a lot of municipal investment, and actually a very progressive outlook. Even if governmental decisions for growth and progress weren't always right or weren't always popular, they were always doing SOMETHING and working on something. They were cities/suburbs/villages on the move. I didn't appreciate that area then, but, I do now.
This area is NOT on the move. The only real investor here is the University.
To me it seems like a 1970's outlook on how to do things, how to run a successful city, sitting on its laurels and relying on tradition. Invest in downtown (which they did in 2000 with a terrific grant), built a new school, allow the University to build however they please without dissent... but there's no out-of-the box thinking. And no master plan. Its as if they don't realize that the focal point of the city is not the downtown, anymore. There's four other quadrants of the city that have just as much shopping and residents -- and very little municipal investment.
Just frustrated -- and thinking that this area is going to be pretty stagnant for a long time if the economy continues how it is, especially if no one in government does something insightful to promote thoughtful development.
There's similar thinking throughout this area. A casino, ballpark, and arena in Toledo will help the downtown to an extent, but, that doesn't really address the needs of the other 90% of the city.
Leaders here are afraid of making waves, I guess.
Sounds like my hometown...lollollol....dont forget special interest groups that wont allow development...
Governor Strickland is doing a good job of balancing the state budget. I was suprised in Illinois. Outside of Chicago there is a lot of extreme poverty; especially in the southern part of the state. Some of the midsized cities seemed to be hurting too. Chicago though, what a beaut! I was there for the 4th. Good times!
There is plenty of extreme poverty in Chicago also. Actually more so than other parts of Illinois. I would say about 50% of the city is run down. The areas you are most likely to see as a tourist (downtown & North Side) are some of the best places in the country. If you can confine your life to the good areas Chicago is one of the best places in the country to live. However, if you live on the south side you might as well be in Detroit. Chicago's suburbs are numerous, and run the gambit from very upscale to straight up ghetto. Lots of new sprawl burbs sprouting up over the last decade.
I would say that Illinois outside of Chicago is no worse than much of the rural parts of Ohio, but the IL state budget is much worse off than Ohio’s. Peoria seems to be in decent shape, probably similar to Akron but smaller. Rockford a bit worse off. Springfield is nothing great. Champaign is a typical college town. Galena, IL is probably nicer than any small rural town in Ohio. On the other hand Cairo, IL might hold the title for most depressed place in the Midwest.
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