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This is all opinion and one person's perspective, so take it lightly -
I've been frustrated this summer with my city in northwest Ohio. Just some examples -
-Realizing there's no shade trees here in Bowling Green, except in the "old section" which comprises less than 1/3 of the city. (Yet, we're still a "Tree City USA.")
- Realizing how bad the landlords are here. Everyone I know has been having trouble with negotiating leases, problems with the apartments themselves, getting the runaround about when they can move in, and basically just dealing with complacent companies and employees that don't really care about customer service. It's not a modern style of management, and there's a monopoly here where probably half the units in the city are owned by two companies.
- Realizing how little there is for kids. There's no skateboard park, no Boys & Girls Club, no YMCA... things that I take for granted elsewhere.
- Realizing that our most popular industry is bars. There's seventeen of them, with all the problems that you would typically associate with there being seventeen bars in a fairly small city.
I'm frustrated by lack of smart growth, lack of diversification, no jobs, no effort by municipal government to work for grants and jobs, the lack of quality affordable housing, and just the general attitude of complacency.
I'm spoiled, admittedly. I grew up spending lots of time in the Chicago suburbs which have a lot of resources, a lot of municipal investment, and actually a very progressive outlook. Even if governmental decisions for growth and progress weren't always right or weren't always popular, they were always doing SOMETHING and working on something. They were cities/suburbs/villages on the move. I didn't appreciate that area then, but, I do now.
This area is NOT on the move. The only real investor here is the University.
To me it seems like a 1970's outlook on how to do things, how to run a successful city, sitting on its laurels and relying on tradition. Invest in downtown (which they did in 2000 with a terrific grant), built a new school, allow the University to build however they please without dissent... but there's no out-of-the box thinking. And no master plan. Its as if they don't realize that the focal point of the city is not the downtown, anymore. There's four other quadrants of the city that have just as much shopping and residents -- and very little municipal investment.
Just frustrated -- and thinking that this area is going to be pretty stagnant for a long time if the economy continues how it is, especially if no one in government does something insightful to promote thoughtful development.
There's similar thinking throughout this area. A casino, ballpark, and arena in Toledo will help the downtown to an extent, but, that doesn't really address the needs of the other 90% of the city.
I agree, there are a lot of leaders that lack vision, but I have met a lot of people in Ohio who are doing/changing things for the better.
You are comparing Chicago and its suburbs to Bowling Green and Toledo?! Talk about a huge population differance, and different history.
If you don't like it, then move. NW Ohio has some great little cities that have attractive little downtowns, and are very livable areas with great school systems. You are acting like the problems you just mentioned are only set to NW Ohio and no where else across the country. Well let me tell you, that is extremely far from the truth. The grass isn't always greener on the other side, and it takes extensive traveling to see that.
NW Ohio is NOT stuck in the 1970's. Let's not throw an area down because you do not like it/have had bad experiences there. Why don't you travel the hour north to Michigan and see how extremely depressed that state is, or head on over to Northern Indiana. You will be suprised by how stagnant it is. I was recently down south, in Mobile, it's downtown was dead with empty storefronts. It was a shame seeing such a beautiful southern city with potential rot like that.
Given the hard times that this economy is in, Toledo is doing things beyond amazing. The Warehouse District, Downtown, the museums, etc. And with one of the tallest buildings in the downtown area getting a multi million dollar renovation, thats pretty impressive.
Bowling Green is a nice college town that is home to a great university. BGSU was doing a lot of new construction when I was there back in March. The Toledo/Bowling Green is a highly underrated area.
I am sorry you have had a bad time. But like I said earlier, the grass isn't always greener on the other side. I hope you leave and find what you are looking for elsewhere; but I don't feel you need to throw an area down like you did.
Beavercreek33, if I might jump to the OP's defense just for a moment...I think you're being a tad harsh in your response to Summer22. First, they didn't say Bowling Green was stuck in the 70s - merely that it seemed to have a 1970s outlook on how to do things. Second, downtown Toledo is 20+ miles away from downtown Bowling Green, so it's really not fair to apply the ambitions of Toledo to BG, as if they are right across the river from one another. That would be like saying downtown Hamilton is on the move simply because downtown Cincinnati is seeing a lot of progress right now. It's simply not the case. Third, perhaps Summer22 can't afford to move - so it's not fair to simply tell him/her to leave. Fourth, I'm not really hearing that Summer22 is throwing the place down, but rather expressing disappointment that more isn't being done to improve Bowling Green. It sounds like the OP cares, but is frustrated with the lack of motivation/ambition in that particular city. Toledo has nothing to do with it. So please ease up...and FWIW, while it may be true the grass isn't always greener somewhere else, it is likewise true that sometimes it is.
This is all opinion and one person's perspective, so take it lightly -
Sure thing.
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Originally Posted by summer22
I've been frustrated this summer with my city in northwest Ohio.
OK, it's not uncommon. However, I will say I'm impressed you said "my city" rather than "a city." Possession is a motivator.
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Originally Posted by summer22
Just some examples -
-Realizing there's no shade trees here in Bowling Green, except in the "old section" which comprises less than 1/3 of the city. (Yet, we're still a "Tree City USA.")
I can get on board with this. Of all the infrastructure and beautification ideas of which I can think, this is one of the more cost effective ways to make the area more aesthetically pleasing. In fact, I've said something very similar for a city nigh 22 miles south of there. Also, it would provide more wind breaks for the winter time.
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Originally Posted by summer22
- Realizing how bad the landlords are here. Everyone I know has been having trouble with negotiating leases, problems with the apartments themselves, getting the runaround about when they can move in, and basically just dealing with complacent companies and employees that don't really care about customer service. It's not a modern style of management, and there's a monopoly here where probably half the units in the city are owned by two companies.
I have absolutely zero idea how this could be solved effectively. Could it even be solved without some sort of duress? I'm not so sure.
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Originally Posted by summer22
- Realizing how little there is for kids. There's no skateboard park, no Boys & Girls Club, no YMCA... things that I take for granted elsewhere.
We are speaking of a city with a population of approximately 29,000. With that, we must understand how much capital this city can harness to implement such ideas. If the city government cannot produce such, then it would rely on private foundations and donors. That's easier said than done.
Also, I used to audit non-profit organizations similar to Boys & Girls Club. Organization membership is lagging, at least in the NW Ohio area. I would imagine it tough to start such an organization there. Now, that isn't to say one could find an organization that is currently established and try to promote it. I would wager to say there is a county youth soccer or baseball/softball league already in place. Could this be promoted? Thinking outside the box doesn't always require buying a new one.
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Originally Posted by summer22
- Realizing that our most popular industry is bars. There's seventeen of them, with all the problems that you would typically associate with there being seventeen bars in a fairly small city.
I thought the most popular industry would be education. I'd think it a safe bet to say BGSU pulls down more money than all of the bars combined, especially with their tuition rates these days.
Regardless, because of the university, there are so many bars. The demand has to be enough to keep all of them going. Some of them aren't that bad. I know there are a few bars, a coffee shop, three restaurants, and handful of other businesses I'd love to purloin and have them relocate in downtown Fin-diddly.
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Originally Posted by summer22
I'm frustrated by lack of smart growth, lack of diversification, no jobs, no effort by municipal government to work for grants and jobs, the lack of quality affordable housing, and just the general attitude of complacency.
I rarely like using the term "smart growth," as I feel like I'm trapped in a 90's efficiency planning meeting. Diversification is a rather vague term in this case. I'll wager to say you mean diversification in the sense of demographics. That's really tough to control or change. One cannot put a gun to the head of the affluent and say "you're moving to Bowling Green." It takes decades to build a reputation. Without bringing in another heavyweight industry, the job situation will stay the same. At the risk of sounding brash, who's really looking in rural NW Ohio? As far as the attitude goes, it will only change when different viewpoints settle there. Yes, it is a Catch-22.
On a side note, "quality" is the responsibility of the residents. Section 8 can make housing "affordable," but the residents must keep the "quality" up (e.g. not tear the crap out of it).
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Originally Posted by summer22
I'm spoiled, admittedly. I grew up spending lots of time in the Chicago suburbs which have a lot of resources, a lot of municipal investment, and actually a very progressive outlook. Even if governmental decisions for growth and progress weren't always right or weren't always popular, they were always doing SOMETHING and working on something. They were cities/suburbs/villages on the move. I didn't appreciate that area then, but, I do now.
Experience changes your attitude in life, doesn't it?
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Originally Posted by summer22
This area is NOT on the move. The only real investor here is the University.
This recommendation would be valuable, if the reader is a person with the same attitudes and beliefs as you. We must acknowledge that Americans are far from homogeneous.
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Originally Posted by summer22
To me it seems like a 1970's outlook on how to do things, how to run a successful city, sitting on its laurels and relying on tradition. Invest in downtown (which they did in 2000 with a terrific grant), built a new school, allow the University to build however they please without dissent... but there's no out-of-the box thinking. And no master plan. Its as if they don't realize that the focal point of the city is not the downtown, anymore. There's four other quadrants of the city that have just as much shopping and residents -- and very little municipal investment.
As long as I can remember, the downtown wasn't the focal point. That's the consequence of having a major university come to town. I'm wondering if the city even has the resources to make much of an investment. They received their downtown restoration grant, but are they really qualified for anything else? A grant for bike trails, maybe?
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Originally Posted by summer22
Just frustrated
Of course, many people are.
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Originally Posted by summer22
-- and thinking that this area is going to be pretty stagnant for a long time if the economy continues how it is, especially if no one in government does something insightful to promote thoughtful development.
There's similar thinking throughout this area. A casino, ballpark, and arena in Toledo will help the downtown to an extent, but, that doesn't really address the needs of the other 90% of the city.
From the talk I hear, downtown Toledo still needs a lot more work and a lot more capital.
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Originally Posted by summer22
Leaders here are afraid of making waves, I guess.
Or their hands are tied, or they don't have competent help, or the city isn't big enough to attract the progressive leaders that align with your beliefs, or the resources just aren't there.
summer22, I want to make it clear that I'm on your side. You are voicing your opinion, and there's nothing wrong in that. I will not tell you, "if you don't like it, then move." People are so unwilling to listen to concerns anymore, they are willing to overlook the ills of a community. Criticism is something to be heard, without fear of insult. However, we must have a keen sense of discretion when evaluating said criticism, and must also face the possibility that there may be no solution attainable.
Beavercreek33, if I might jump to the OP's defense just for a moment...I think you're being a tad harsh in your response to Summer22. First, they didn't say Bowling Green was stuck in the 70s - merely that it seemed to have a 1970s outlook on how to do things. Second, downtown Toledo is 20+ miles away from downtown Bowling Green, so it's really not fair to apply the ambitions of Toledo to BG, as if they are right across the river from one another. That would be like saying downtown Hamilton is on the move simply because downtown Cincinnati is seeing a lot of progress right now. It's simply not the case. Third, perhaps Summer22 can't afford to move - so it's not fair to simply tell him/her to leave. Fourth, I'm not really hearing that Summer22 is throwing the place down, but rather expressing disappointment that more isn't being done to improve Bowling Green. It sounds like the OP cares, but is frustrated with the lack of motivation/ambition in that particular city. Toledo has nothing to do with it. So please ease up...and FWIW, while it may be true the grass isn't always greener somewhere else, it is likewise true that sometimes it is.
I don't need to ease up on anything because there was never a put down anywhere in my post. I mentioned Toledo because at the end of Summer's post, he/she mentioned the city. Last I checked, BG and Toledo were both in the same metro. I never mentioned both cities downtowns and how they compare. Yet you make it sound like a SW Ohio comparison. Toledo has its downtown, BG has its downtown.
Summer, please do not take my post the wrong way. I am not native to Ohio, and I travel for business all the time. Just recently getting away from a two month business trip. Every place has its problems, and I am sure you know that, and if you go around the country, you will see NW Ohio is a livable place.
If you are expressing concern, that is great! But you have to understand there are a lot of posters on here (mostly trolls) that create threads like this just to complain. I am sure you are not doing that. I just hope you see where I am getting at.
summer22, I want to make it clear that I'm on your side. You are voicing your opinion, and there's nothing wrong in that. I will not tell you, "if you don't like it, then move." People are so unwilling to listen to concerns anymore, they are willing to overlook the ills of a community. Criticism is something to be heard, without fear of insult. However, we must have a keen sense of discretion when evaluating said criticism, and must also face the possibility that there may be no solution attainable.
If you are directing that towards me, I am more than willing to listen to peoples' concerns, and this site is meant for peoples' opinions. There are "ills" in every community, and some people refuse to look at that, and point out the negatives all the time. And hearing the negatives ALL the time gets old.
If you are directing that towards me, I am more than willing to listen to peoples' concerns, and this site is meant for peoples' opinions. There are "ills" in every community, and some people refuse to look at that, and point out the negatives all the time. And hearing the negatives ALL the time gets old.
As far as that post is concerned, it was regarding the people I've met in real life. Oddly enough, you had posted while I was making mine (I do take my time). If you would like to consider yourself part of that group, you are more than welcome. Otherwise, do as you please. I'm not going to argue about it.
Quite frankly, I see genuine concern in the OP's post, hence I gave an honest review.
Hello everyone and thanks for your comments — I didn't quite know what the first response would be like, but I'm happy that I see some common ground with everyone who posted.
Art — thanks for a really constructive analysis. Here goes with some thoughts to share on your response —
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I will say I'm impressed you said "my city" rather than "a city." Possession is a motivator.
I think part of my frustration too, comes from not having a "permanent" city of my own — I'm on the second year of a job hunt, and because of the economy, its most likely the position when its found will be somewhere else. Its not that I feel disempowered about working on issues here in NWO, but, in some ways I hate to start something knowing that, on two weeks notice, I might be moving two or three states away. But yes, basically wherever I am I have some feeling of ownership in the place I live, and I've really always been that way.
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I can get on board with this. Of all the infrastructure and beautification ideas of which I can think, this is one of the more cost effective ways to make the area more aesthetically pleasing. In fact, I've said something very similar for a city nigh 22 miles south of there. Also, it would provide more wind breaks for the winter time.
Wouldn't that be great? I'm so used to the Chi suburbs and their um, shall we say, "retentive" policies about how many trees are required for each foot of frontage, and, how much grassy area is required for each parking space. Here in NWO, even in new construction, they pave everything, with the exceptions being the University and the handful of national corporations that build in landscaping on their properties as a corporate standard.
In Northwest Indiana (Chicago region), where I spent the last few years, the town basically held developers over a barrel, not approving anything until they were absolutely pleased with the amount of landscaping, facing of the building, brickwork, signage, lighting... and it was a small community of 20,000 also. I don't quite understand why that little town had enough pride and willpower to get what they wanted from developers, whereas it seems like Bowling Green doesn't even try to get concessions or amenities from the people who want to build here. The town council there was headed by a middle school principal, so maybe that had something to do with it. Middle school principals are tough.
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I have absolutely zero idea how this could be solved effectively. Could it even be solved without some sort of duress? I'm not so sure.
That response was to my comment about BG's landlords. I am not sure either. I suppose the most ethically appropriate model could be a proactive approach for providing consumer information, probably coordinated by BGSU. Two examples I can think of are Indiana University's Student Legal Services (http://www.indiana.edu/~sls/renters_top_ten.html - broken link), which has a very comprehensive guide, and Ohio State's office of Off-Campus Student Services (http://offcampus.osu.edu/housing.asp - broken link) has a website which informs renters of common problems and how to avoid them. These publicize the problems so that consumers can be aware.
There could also be ordinances drafted that would require landlords to follow certain rules or provide each renter with a straightforward document showing move-in dates, security deposit policy, and etc. (Much like the standard form you see on the window of used cars.)
And of course the Chicago way would be to put pressure (duress) on the landlords and enforce housing codes to the T, until they agree to sit down at the table.
What do you think about strong mayors? There don't seem to be a lot of them in Ohio. Where I grew up, there were strong mayors. Mayor Daley of Chicago, and, a host of suburban mayors who were equally headstrong and outspoken. When they wanted something done, they found a way to do it. Some of the West Coast mayors that I read about (San Francisco, Portland) and of course New York have those kind of people in charge, too. It does seem like those type of people get more accomplished. But, I'd bet that each time they shove, they get shoved back in some way and its probably not pretty. From your comment about duress, I take it that you don't think that's a good way to get things done. Could you elaborate a little?
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We are speaking of a city with a population of approximately 29,000. With that, we must understand how much capital this city can harness to implement such ideas. If the city government cannot produce such, then it would rely on private foundations and donors. That's easier said than done.
I'm thinking of Indiana again, and, the youth organizations there were countywide, with at least one very well established location, and then they branched out and added satellite locations. Their first locations were built in the 1970's (originally on a shoestring, but well supported by benefactors and grants over the years and a lot of hard work) and over the course of 30-40 years they added locations in nearly every community in the county. They often cooperated with churches and school districts, to gain name recognition and to save money on facilities. And again, these were small communities not much bigger that Bowling Green. Could it be that people here just never explored or actualized the possibilities, or saw the need? Is it really true that communities in Northwest Indiana have a 30-year head start over Northwest Ohio? I guess that is true, but, I have a hard time believing it. Why would people in Indiana have foreseen the need and done the work, and people in this region did not? We've already ruled out population size and tax base as a factor.
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Also, I used to audit non-profit organizations similar to Boys & Girls Club. Organization membership is lagging, at least in the NW Ohio area. I would imagine it tough to start such an organization there. Now, that isn't to say one could find an organization that is currently established and try to promote it. I would wager to say there is a county youth soccer or baseball/softball league already in place. Could this be promoted? Thinking outside the box doesn't always require buying a new one.
Good point, and there are some good programs. And in a down economy it would be incredibly difficult to initiate a new project, unless.... unless Bowling Green was willing to sit down with potential partners in the region. Imagine the possibilities if the city, the university, officials from Perrysburg, the county commissioners, and officials from the rural communities in Wood County could work together on some of these initiatives. Synergy and cooperation are what would be required to make something work.
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I thought the most popular industry would be education. I'd think it a safe bet to say BGSU pulls down more money than all of the bars combined, especially with their tuition rates these days.
Definitely true. Its too bad that BGSU is still under a hiring freeze and is limited in the way they can contribute to the growth of the greater community. But the campus is looking great and the FIVE major projects under construction will really add a lot to the University.
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Regardless, because of the university, there are so many bars. The demand has to be enough to keep all of them going. Some of them aren't that bad. I know there are a few bars, a coffee shop, three restaurants, and handful of other businesses I'd love to purloin and have them relocate in downtown Fin-diddly.
Findlay definitely has a few nice places too. I guess BG owners just perceive Findlay as a little too far to make it worthwhile to open a second location there. BG's bars can be enjoyable, definitely. I think the number has gone up though, in the years since I graduated. There were about 10 or 12 I think, and its up to 16 or 17.
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I rarely like using the term "smart growth," as I feel like I'm trapped in a 90's efficiency planning meeting. Diversification is a rather vague term in this case. I'll wager to say you mean diversification in the sense of demographics. That's really tough to control or change. One cannot put a gun to the head of the affluent and say "you're moving to Bowling Green." It takes decades to build a reputation. Without bringing in another heavyweight industry, the job situation will stay the same. At the risk of sounding brash, who's really looking in rural NW Ohio? As far as the attitude goes, it will only change when different viewpoints settle there. Yes, it is a Catch-22.
I like your point about diversification of jobs/people, and you're right on, but that wasn't quite what I meant, I guess I didn't name that issue correctly... what I meant by "smart growth" is containment of sprawl, and managing existing/prior sprawl. I'm thinking about the fact that BG has four shopping districts that are only defined by the names of the major store there. I'm also looking at zoning/city planning disasters such as allowing a major apartment complex to locate adjacent to a pig slaughterhouse, and on the north side of town (which might be county and not city) a beautiful subdivision that was allowed to be built directly across the street from a plastic factory.
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On a side note, "quality" is the responsibility of the residents. Section 8 can make housing "affordable," but the residents must keep the "quality" up (e.g. not tear the crap out of it).
Good point. But landlords if they have pride in the community and their property, and have the funds to do it (which I think they do, at least the major players), they should want to improve their buildings (at least on a regular interval), not just repair. In my opinion, they're not helping the improvement of the city when they don't invest something into upgrades and curb appeal.
(And now we're into duress again, because the only way they would expend dollars, most likely, is if government put some pressure on them.)
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Experience changes your attitude in life, doesn't it?
Oh, I know!
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This recommendation would be valuable, if the reader is a person with the same attitudes and beliefs as you. We must acknowledge that Americans are far from homogeneous.
For sure.
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As long as I can remember, the downtown wasn't the focal point. That's the consequence of having a major university come to town. I'm wondering if the city even has the resources to make much of an investment. They received their downtown restoration grant, but are they really qualified for anything else? A grant for bike trails, maybe?
The 2000 grant for the downtown improvements and streetscaping really brought that area to life and it was a very cool place to live for several years. I just wish that they kept going for similar grants. Or, in place of grants, used TIF districts or other financing options to define and improve the four major shopping areas and gateways to the city. Right now, we have the area by Kroger, the area by Meijer, the area by Walmart, and downtown. These areas need names, they need definition, they need some recognition as business districts, they could use some beautification and traffic flow improvements. They could use some master planning so that future building in these four districts is not hodge-podge and random (what the developers want for their own agendas), but unified and organized (for the benefit and quality-of-life for the residents of BG).
The Northwest Indiana communities I'm familiar with, and the Chicago south suburbs (again, some in the same population numbers as BG) always seemed to have consultants and grant-writers working on projects. They paid lots of attention to their community gateways and access points. They did go after the bike trail money, too. They were very aggressive in seeking out grants and financing.
I guess when 200 suburbs are competing with each other for reputation and name recognition, there's considerable motivation to make things happen.
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Leaders here are afraid of making waves, I guess.
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Or their hands are tied, or they don't have competent help, or the city isn't big enough to attract the progressive leaders that align with your beliefs, or the resources just aren't there.
I hear you.
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summer22, I want to make it clear that I'm on your side. You are voicing your opinion, and there's nothing wrong in that. I will not tell you, "if you don't like it, then move." People are so unwilling to listen to concerns anymore, they are willing to overlook the ills of a community. Criticism is something to be heard, without fear of insult. However, we must have a keen sense of discretion when evaluating said criticism, and must also face the possibility that there may be no solution attainable.
And thanks. You gave all my thoughts a fair shake and added something of value to my perspective. We have to listen to those who are unhappy or frustrated, and find out why they are unhappy or frustrated. By listening to enough people and looking for the common ground between all the various opinions, we can at least come up with a starting point that we can all agree on. Maybe for BG, it's trees. Then see what happens and take it from there.
I agree, there are a lot of leaders that lack vision, but I have met a lot of people in Ohio who are doing/changing things for the better.
It would be cool to know more of them or see them in the news more often. I'm sure there are many, but, like you said, its sometimes those without vision who crowd out the ones who do.
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You are comparing Chicago and its suburbs to Bowling Green and Toledo?! Talk about a huge population differance, and different history.
True! But to me the distance between here and there isn't so big. I'm always a little surprised when I happen to talk with someone from this area and find out they've never been to Chicago, never been to Indianapolis... there's just so much to learn from all the communities around us, and 4 hours isn't far at all.
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The grass isn't always greener on the other side, and it takes extensive traveling to see that.
Thanks, and that's true. I look up to people who have traveled alot and taken in a wide variety of communities.
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Summer, please do not take my post the wrong way. I am not native to Ohio, and I travel for business all the time. Just recently getting away from a two month business trip. Every place has its problems, and I am sure you know that, and if you go around the country, you will see NW Ohio is a livable place.
Liveable, for sure. But I get frustrated when I see that its not at its full potential. It has a great foundation, but, there are so many things that it could still use to guard and nurture its future... especially for its kids and so that NWO can retain its best and brightest kids, so they don't feel they need to move to Columbus or Chicago or elsewhere. Which is just my opinion of course!!
What am I really trying to say? I'm a huge advocate for communities doing everything they can to learn from other successful communities. And I get upset when they don't. That's the teacher in me. And the Chicagoan in me (its just in our nature to push and prod and shove, I guess.)
Shyspider — thanks, you understood me really well.
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