O-H Kasich Got to GO

[davery5872]

Originally Posted by wanderbygrace

As I said, if you have a decent administrator.......

The problem is not when you have a decent administrator. Any system will work in that situation.

[Dwatted Wabbit]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

The National Labor Relations Act of 1935, known as the Wagner Act, established the right to collective bargaining in the United States.

National Labor Relations Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



In 1935 (the middle of the Great Depression), the "money tree" was far from full.

Great Depression - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Apparently, with you, the sky's the limit!

No, you are correct and I stand corrected. What I was thinking but did not transfer to the keyboard properly was that at the time, indeed the union movememt was fully justified and badly needed.

As one somewhat familiar with corporate king abuses of the labor force, I'm sorry to have misstated my case so badly.

What I meant to say was the union abuses during the flush times of the 60s and 70s and onward, and the corporate management caving to demands that anyone with an understanding of escalating payouts and how, like Social Security, their pay, healthcare, and retirement liabilities would eventually become unsustainable, have made union positions unrealistic.

The recent mob rule in Madison, WI, where millions of dollars of damage was done to the Capitol, shows how unrealistic the union demands have become.
There are apparently many people willing to demand it all, now, and not worry about any massive crash that, having achieved their unsustainable goals, will ensure for the future.

My position is that unions have largely become the monster they were created to fight. Unions such as NEA, Teamsters, and almost all others have a tendency to be targed for takeover by crime and communist elements. Not that there's a lot of difference between the two.

And unfortunately commies and mob bosses are good at what they do, regarding gaining control. Eventually, of course, they bankrupt and destroy the host because their relationship is not symbiotic, but parasite-host.

Unfettered capitalism and unfettered socialism reach the same ends.

"Under capitalism man exploits man; under socialism the reverse is true". ~Polish Proverb

Originally Posted by Droolrockworm

I believe that the right to collectively bargain is the only way that the little guy doesn't get trampled by big business. I am including public institutions in that statement. People obviously have not learned much about the laissez faire period of the late 19th century before unions emerged. Robber barrons like Rockefeller, Carnegie, Morgan etc. became exceptionally rich (US steel was sold for 1B before the turn of the 20th century meanwhile workers faced 16-18 hour work days and still could not make ends meet. Children were in the workplace and abused, coal miners were paid in company script that could only be used in the company store and were paid so little that at the end of the week the owed the company money (and that is without the purchace of simple masks that protected them from black lung). The AFL fought (literally) for the 8 hour day and 40 hour work week as well as requiring a safer workplace. The government played a role as well protecting workers from company paid mercenaries to break strikes. I know that unions are not perfect and as a president of one I get to see all sides of this issue and there is no question that without union protection my members would face a much worse workplace. People need to understand that when government steps out of line the people have a chance to change those decisions. When a big company makes poor decisions government is the only entity that can step in and force reasonable behavior is the government, as long as it is bigger than said company.

All that you say is true. The exploitation of the coal miners by business and the feds is a shameful chapter of our nation's history. US troops were used to bring the miners into line. Live ammo was fired into tent cities housing miners and their families, yes that would include women and children.

Unfortunately, the unions have become the monster they came to slay. Now what?

Originally Posted by Droolrockworm

KSU
I read the article and question almost the entire article. Seems to me that it is a reinvention of history. If you look at period pieces you will literally see the violence of capitalists (and unions) that forged these rights. The author may be one of the Texan textbook writers that say that the South actually was in favor of the abolition of slavery. I grew up near a guy that had a plate in his head and quite a dent when he (as a coal miner) got clubbed by people brought in to stop a strike when they argued for safer working conditions.

[davery5872]

Originally Posted by Dwatted Wabbit

What I meant to say was the union abuses during the flush times of the 60s and 70s and onward, and the corporate management caving to demands that anyone with an understanding of escalating payouts and how, like Social Security, their pay, healthcare, and retirement liabilities would eventually become unsustainable, have made union positions unrealistic.

What does Social Security have to do with unions? And by the way, just because there was poor management in the 60's and 70's does not mean that collective bargaining should be outlawed. Across the country unions are responding to the current situation and taking pay cuts. And I disagree that unions retirements are unsustainable. For example, teachers in Ohio pay 10% of there salary into their retirement. That will be increasing to at least 14%, maybe more. Right now most workers of the private sector are paying 4.2%. Shouldn't the individual who pays more into the system have a better retirement?

Originally Posted by Dwatted Wabbit

My position is that unions have largely become the monster they were created to fight. Unions such as NEA, Teamsters, and almost all others have a tendency to be targed for takeover by crime and communist elements. Not that there's a lot of difference between the two.

So you are saying that NEA is controlled by communists and/or mob bosses? Do you have any data to back that up? And by the way, isn't the mob just unrestrained capitalism?