Please Tell Me About Youngstown (Cleveland, Akron: upper-class, rent, crime)

[bluecarebear]

BTW, another plus for Youngstown is that it has a Level 1 trauma center. Erie doesn't even have one of those.

[kpl1228]

Off topic here...but seeing all the Pittsburgh vs. Cleveland rants...Pittsburgh has it all over Cleveland from a business, economic, and partnership standpoint. And has for years now. Very pro-active, very big on partnerships with colleges and hospitals and the like.
I am a lifelong lover of Cleveland, former resident and still Cleveland sports fan, and so I'm not supposed to even like Pittsburgh, but Cleveland in comparison to Pittsburgh really drops the ball regarding the categories above. And compared to other Rust Belt cities, Pittsburgh did the best job of "moving on" and away from an economy based solely on heavy industry. A real success story.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by kpl1228

Off topic here...but seeing all the Pittsburgh vs. Cleveland rants...Pittsburgh has it all over Cleveland from a business, economic, and partnership standpoint. And has for years now. Very pro-active, very big on partnerships with colleges and hospitals and the like.
I am a lifelong lover of Cleveland, former resident and still Cleveland sports fan, and so I'm not supposed to even like Pittsburgh, but Cleveland in comparison to Pittsburgh really drops the ball regarding the categories above. And compared to other Rust Belt cities, Pittsburgh did the best job of "moving on" and away from an economy based solely on heavy industry. A real success story.

I just wish TheMahValley would back off. He/she/it follows me around everywhere. I can post nine examples of why Cleveland is better than Pittsburgh and ONE example of how Pittsburgh is better than Cleveland, and he/she/it will latch onto that one thing and rant about how much of a condescending Pittsburgh booster I am. I'm not. I love Cleveland. I love Pittsburgh. It's in my best interest for BOTH cities to thrive, and, getting back on-topic, it's in YOUNGSTOWN'S best interest for both to thrive. Why?

Pittsburgh is already becoming very expensive for the working-class to afford (a dump across the street from me just sold for nearly $500,000). Cleveland isn't, but the national attention and publicity that's being heaped upon it now will make it take off like a rocket in not too long. Once it does become more expensive, then more artists and other low-earning yet morally-upstanding working-class people will give a place like YOUNGSTOWN (and Warren, Akron, Erie, Canton, Wheeling, Weirton, New Castle, Butler, etc.) a second look. All of these struggling cities have limited opportunity to reinvent themselves fully on their own as their manufacturing sectors that once made them powerful are dead and are all best poised to try to tap-dance around and show themselves off to wealthy Pittsburghers and increasingly wealthy Clevelanders for day-tripping opportunities. Once people in these bigger cities descend upon these smaller cities and spend money for recreation, stimulating the local economy, they'll see that there ARE great things about these places and consider returning---permanently.

I posted all of those stats to finally get TheMahValley to back off. Cleveland may (arguably) have better sports teams/fan bases; a better transportation and mass transit network; better urban parks; better concerts; better museums (especially the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame); sexier people; a better natural setting; better restaurants; etc.

In a purely ECONOMIC sense, though, Allegheny County and Cuyahoga County are almost identically-sized, yet not only does the city proper of Pittsburgh blow Cleveland's city proper out of the water on ECONOMIC terms, but so does the county it's housed within. 35% (I think I just saw an updated stat of 40%) of Pittsburgh's adults possess at least a Bachelor's Degree. That's much, much higher than Cleveland. While college graduates certainly aren't inherently "better" people, they DO tend to earn more money over the course of their lifetimes than those without degrees, and companies like Google, Microsoft, Intel, Disney, Apple, etc.---the ones you WANT in your city---take notice when a lot of the talent they want to recruit doesn't want to relocate out of the city (as has been happening with Carnegie Mellon University's bright minds wanting to STAY here, convincing such companies to set up offices here to cater to them). Cleveland has Case Western Reserve University, which, of course, is right up there with Carnegie Mellon University in terms of prestige and appeal. The problem? Cleveland isn't doing nearly as good of a job at convincing those bright young minds to STAY in Cleveland as Pittsburgh has been doing, hence why the same companies moving to Pittsburgh to cater to Carnegie Mellon University aren't moving to Cleveland to cater to Case Western Reserve. Cleveland needs to fix this to improve. It doesn't matter if you've got a pretty lake; LeBron James; a cool music-oriented museum; and great BRT if the next generation wants nothing to do with your city.

[kpl1228]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

In a purely ECONOMIC sense, though, Allegheny County and Cuyahoga County are almost identically-sized, yet not only does the city proper of Pittsburgh blow Cleveland's city proper out of the water on ECONOMIC terms, but so does the county it's housed within. 35% (I think I just saw an updated stat of 40%) of Pittsburgh's adults possess at least a Bachelor's Degree. That's much, much higher than Cleveland. While college graduates certainly aren't inherently "better" people, they DO tend to earn more money over the course of their lifetimes than those without degrees, and companies like Google, Microsoft, Intel, Disney, Apple, etc.---the ones you WANT in your city---take notice when a lot of the talent they want to recruit doesn't want to relocate out of the city (as has been happening with Carnegie Mellon University's bright minds wanting to STAY here, convincing such companies to set up offices here to cater to them). Cleveland has Case Western Reserve University, which, of course, is right up there with Carnegie Mellon University in terms of prestige and appeal. The problem? Cleveland isn't doing nearly as good of a job at convincing those bright young minds to STAY in Cleveland as Pittsburgh has been doing, hence why the same companies moving to Pittsburgh to cater to Carnegie Mellon University aren't moving to Cleveland to cater to Case Western Reserve. Cleveland needs to fix this to improve. It doesn't matter if you've got a pretty lake; LeBron James; a cool music-oriented museum; and great BRT if the next generation wants nothing to do with your city.

Well stated. Agreed. Go Browns

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by bluecarebear

Pittsburgh has changed. I don't know what has happened over the last several years but it is almost an entirely different city in attitude. New Castle has been mentioned a couple times on here and I enjoy myself in Lawrence County far more than Pittsburgh. Yes, downtown New Castle is a mess but there is so much more to it. The city has a lot of potential.

The problem with Pittsburgh is that the city focuses on itself. It has never been a regional hub like Cleveland which has always been thought of as Cleveland/Akron/Youngstown/Canton. Allegheny County ignores the surrounding cities where as Cleveland embraces the expansion. This lack of vision is going to bite Pittsburgh in the butt. Growth is based on restaurants and retail. There are zero plans for expanding the light rail system. There is no easy access to the airport. The job market is mediocre. Taxes and the COL are increasing. The bubble is going to burst soon.

1.) I'm happy Pittsburgh is putting Pittsburgh first. As the urban core of the metropolitan area local leaders realize that the healthier the core, the healthier the entire region, too. Cleveland isn't known for having a healthy core, unfortunately, and every dollar that is spent towards improving Solon at the expense of Cleveland is as big of a mistake as every dollar HERE that is spent towards improving Cranberry Township or Robinson Township at the expense of Pittsburgh. Also, Pittsburgh IS a "regional hub" for Greensburg, Butler, Weirton, Steubenville, Wheeling, Morgantown, Uniontown, Washington (the PA one), and, yes, your precious New Castle, too. Those cities all to a great extent (Greensburg, Uniontown, Butler) or a small extent (Morgantown) depend upon Pittsburgh's success for their own continued success.

2.) I agree with you about our horrible public transportation infrastructure. Traffic congestion chokes my part of town nearly 24/7, and it's only getting worse as more wealthy car-owning people move here. It would take a great deal of political bravado to propose a tax increase to fund a new "T" line linking Monroeville (east) to the Airport (west) via the city, but it's desperately needed.

3.) Job market is NOT mediocre. Pittsburgh's unemployment rate is now 5.1%, which has been consistently FAR below the state and national average for years now. Cleveland's is higher. If you can't find a job in Pittsburgh, then either your field is too specialized, you think you're "above" too many jobs, or there's just something wrong with you that makes interviewers cringe.

4.) Yes, Pittsburgh is becoming a very expensive place to RENT. Housing prices (outside the East End) remain affordable for the middle-class and should for a very long time. There's a LOT of brownfield redevelopment opportunities to exhaust before one would see any sort of NYC-styled pricing going on here.

[katnip kid]

Thanks for the responses, everyone! Gotta get to work, so this will be brief.

Okay, so how bad is the Winter in Youngstown, OH? Is there a lot of lake-effect snow?

[JR_C]

Originally Posted by katnip kid

Thanks for the responses, everyone! Gotta get to work, so this will be brief.

Okay, so how bad is the Winter in Youngstown, OH? Is there a lot of lake-effect snow?

Youngstown gets a little lake-effect snow, but nothing like Erie or Buffalo.
Snowbelt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[bluecarebear]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

1.) I'm happy Pittsburgh is putting Pittsburgh first. As the urban core of the metropolitan area local leaders realize that the healthier the core, the healthier the entire region, too. Cleveland isn't known for having a healthy core, unfortunately, and every dollar that is spent towards improving Solon at the expense of Cleveland is as big of a mistake as every dollar HERE that is spent towards improving Cranberry Township or Robinson Township at the expense of Pittsburgh. Also, Pittsburgh IS a "regional hub" for Greensburg, Butler, Weirton, Steubenville, Wheeling, Morgantown, Uniontown, Washington (the PA one), and, yes, your precious New Castle, too. Those cities all to a great extent (Greensburg, Uniontown, Butler) or a small extent (Morgantown) depend upon Pittsburgh's success for their own continued success.

2.) I agree with you about our horrible public transportation infrastructure. Traffic congestion chokes my part of town nearly 24/7, and it's only getting worse as more wealthy car-owning people move here. It would take a great deal of political bravado to propose a tax increase to fund a new "T" line linking Monroeville (east) to the Airport (west) via the city, but it's desperately needed.

3.) Job market is NOT mediocre. Pittsburgh's unemployment rate is now 5.1%, which has been consistently FAR below the state and national average for years now. Cleveland's is higher. If you can't find a job in Pittsburgh, then either your field is too specialized, you think you're "above" too many jobs, or there's just something wrong with you that makes interviewers cringe.

4.) Yes, Pittsburgh is becoming a very expensive place to RENT. Housing prices (outside the East End) remain affordable for the middle-class and should for a very long time. There's a LOT of brownfield redevelopment opportunities to exhaust before one would see any sort of NYC-styled pricing going on here.

No offense, but I am outa here. Why do you think housing prices are so affordable? Because nobody wants to buy in the city! After spending more and more time in NE Ohio and Erie, I have no desire to make Pittsburgh my permanent city any longer. I get a kick from those in NY, NJ, and Maryland that are moving in to Eastern PA for the lower cost. They have no idea how cheap the Midwest is.

[katnip kid]

Hello Bluecarebear!

I hope you stick around on this thread.

Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I have found out how cheap the Midwest is! Wow! The cost of housing is a fraction of what we would pay for comparable homes. The thing is, I have other concerns about what is available lifestyle-wise and all. The cost of real estate is one thing, but of course it is a major thing. That and taxes.

[katnip kid]

An important next step is to take a trip out to Youngstown, spend a few days looking at the city as a potential home. Like I said, the West coast was our first choice. However, in case that can't happen, I am looking at all the options. I must say it would be faster, easier and cheaper to see Youngstown than California.