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Oh, man! I was just getting ready for bed, when I saw this post. Sorry to say, this is the kind of bigotry you'll sometimes find here.
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Originally Posted by SorryIMovedBack
(Greatly amused! LOL)
A few of things to keep in mind about Youngstown, Warren, and other areas with racial tensions:
1. Since the 1960s, it's been proven time and again that a neighborhood can completely change character in almost no time flat. My parents had friends (white, with two daughters) who bought a house on Tod Lane in the '70s in order to be closer to YSU for their daughters to attend school there. They were literally driven out by the blacks, and were unable to sell their house. It stood vacant and vandalized, the bank took it back. Now Tod Lane is mostly an urban prairie of vacant lots, devoid of houses.
Sorry to hear about what happened to your parents' friends' house, almost 40 years ago. But, regarding the part in bold, I assume you mean the 2 1/2 blocks of Tod Ln. west of Logan Ave.? The rest of Tod Ln. is still mostly intact, and quite nice, particularly the the sections that are adjacent to Crandall Park.
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My parents also know people who lived on Glendale when it was very elegant, and they sold out at a loss and fled after their neighborhood started to go ghetto.
3. ANY home that sits vacant for very long in YTown or Warren will be vandalized and copper plumbing and wiring will be stripped. Fires may have been set in it, too. You can see homes that look gorgeous on the outside, have beautiful settings, but the ghetto atmosphere is undeniable.
My new old house sat empty for 5 years before I bought it, and was mildly damaged by thieves; essentially the exposed plumbing in the basement was stolen. If I only had that aspect of the plumbing to fix, it would have been about $1000. But, the cast iron drain pipes had cracked from lack of use, so all of the drainage lines above grade were replaced, which increased the bill quite a bit.
My other house has been vacant for just over a year, and hasn't been touched, so far.
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Based on those three things, I advise against planning to buy in Youngstown and live there in retirement. Bluntly, I'd pick someplace more stable and more white, since I am white and I don't want to be surrounded by ghetto people and constantly threatened by crime. I also don't want to lose money on a property. I believe one of the people posting in this thread owns two homes in YTown. The first is in the Idora Park district, and he stated in earlier threads that he sank a lot of money into fixing that home, and now wants to sell it but property values DECREASED, and his neighborhood became "less white," to use his words. He planned to rent the house, because the amount owed on it is now higher than the property's value with the improvements.
I assume you're referring to me? My other house is in the Garden District. I made no real improvements to it. (did a lot of painting and landscaping for my own enjoyment) But otherwise, I just enjoyed living there for 11 years. I only moved out because I wanted to tackle a real restoration on the north side, where the housing stock is of higher quality/has greater architectural significance. Yes, the property values in the Garden District have dropped sharply. In my case, probably about 50%. Yes, that neighborhood is "less white" than when I bought there. But, I believe the major contributing factor is bank foreclosures. But, as SorryIMovedBack makes evident, white flight is probably playing a role, too.
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You could look at homes over the line in Hermitage, PA. It's full of brick ranches that are up for sale because the retirees are dying off. $69k - $90k could put you into one and it would be more likely to retain value. Avoid Sharon, because the blacks who have decimated Farrell are moving into Sharon, are causing lots of problems there, and Sharon has very high property taxes. Another problem with Sharon, is because there are few buyers, commercial buyers are snatching up elegant old homes and turning them into halfway houses and group homes for a lot of undesirable people that are not what decent people want in their nice neighborhood.
I suppose brick ranches would be better than frame ranches, but I'll leave it to the OP to decide if they would like that sort of thing. It's definitely not for me.
Whoops. GlenWOOD, not GlenDALE. Sorry, they all look alike to me!
Sorry that you feel I am "bigoted." But I don't really give a dang. Just like everyone else, I like what I like, and I ditch whatever I don't. I consider myself older and wiser because I have other life experiences to compare to, because I left these small towns and blighted areas and I got to enjoy some real peace and prosperity elsewhere. I am in the same age group as the OP, and I essentially came (back) here as a complete stranger, which is what the OP will be if he or she moves here, and I feel more qualified than you to address the issues that go with that situation. I am white, female, well educated, and I moved from a well-educated and affluent and SAFE area, back to this impoverished area. And the contrasts between prosperous and well-maintained and crime-controlled and here are GLARING. I want to live in a SAFE area, where I can move freely about the town without having the ghetto and gang activity constantly encroaching. I want neighbors that I have something in common with, intellectually and culturally. And planning to retire to a DECLINING area is ill-advised, imo. You are young and healthy now. But picture yourself at age 85 and much more frail and slower-moving than you are now, and maybe you'll start to get the picture. Being 85 and living alone with the spectre of home invasions and listening to constant gunplay at night is not good quality of life. Every time we tell you something, you defend YTown and that is fine if YTown provides acceptable quality of life for you. But respect the opinions of others who think there are better choices.
What you have in this entire region, including western PA except perhaps Pittsburgh, is postindustrial fallout: Elderly working-class retirees who made their money when the area was more prosperous, and many of those have some generous pensions and /or inheritance and /or a completely inherited free house to live in. And then you have largely a class of young poor welfare have-nots as the only younger populace coming up behind them. The area lost most of the college-grad baby boomers because there were no good opportunities here. The current employers think that $10.50 per hour is real good money. Ed and med are probably the best-paid jobs that still exist. Overall, I don't think that will offer the tax base to keep these towns from further decline and decay in the future. 2006 to now, I observe decline with smattering of improvement in downtown YTown and Sharon.
The Shenango and Mahoning Valleys were meccas for jobs in the '30s into the '50s or '60s, but they have always been blue collar and labor job meccas. In their heyday, they were not so far behind the rest of the nation, intellectually and culturally and economically. When they lost the mill and manufacturing jobs. NOTHING comparable has sprung up to replace them. There may be pockets of high-tech manufacturing, small companies, but the structure of those employers is usually a very tight-knit group of relatives or business associates that controls them, the office jobs are handles by spouses and relatives, and the labor is paid $8 - $10 per hour.
Depending on where the OP is coming from, whether the OP is male or female, and how much intellectual stimulation the OP is looking for, this region may or may not suit. I've already proven that I am not the demographic who will find companionship and acceptable quality of life in YTown, because I have no peers there. Actually I have no peers here.
Shenango Valley gives me a very Polish and ethnic and Catholic and working class vibe. I find the culture here odd and misogynistic. Most of the white people who lived in Farrell at one time have moved to Hermitage. There's really no social life for single women in my age group, unless you count church. Families in Shenango Valley are insular. Women mostly do things with their own children, and then when they are in my age group, they are free babysitter for grandchildren. Everything is home and hearth and continuous child-rearing. I'm done with that, and I am Protestant, and "my" people finish raising their own offspring, and then they retire from that and whoever spawns the next generation takes care of their own childrearing work. As far as I can tell, there is no childfree, debt-free, empty nester phase to Shenango Valley life. I gave updating because I want companionship for me, and not the eternal childrearing crapwork that these smalltown people think I ought to be doing. I've been back here about 8-9 years, and this area's high school mentality and its failure to EVER release women from being the family drudge and free babysitter to be used and abused at will is getting very tiresome. It's hick, is exactly what is is. Might as well be some peasant in a rural village in Europe in the 20th Century. Of course, if one never shook loose from that culture, one probably thinks that's the way things are everywhere. (Suffocating insular family life: Ick!)
My parents are in their 80s and starting to have some health problems. THEY (for years) have gone to Erie for a Protestant social life with people who are not their relatives by blood or marriage, lol. My siblings moved out of state right about the time I moved back, so I am the one helping to get things sold, estate matters, and real estate decrapification done. Then I will skedaddle and hopefully be not too old to get a decent job in a decent locale that isn't so lower class. But right now, yeah, fml, I am like Dirty Harry: Go ahead, make my day, Punk. If any of these annoying hicks around here want to get nearer to God, I'd be happy to send a few of their misogynistic and tediously boring selves there, too. lol
I like to make money, get intellectual stimulation, meet interesting people who are not my relatives by blood or by marriage, work hard, play hard, but definitely avoid motherhood and all house-cleaning homemaker drudgework. As you all might have surmised, I am feeling a bit stymied in meeting my goals and having fun here, haha! And as a heterosexual female single, there's nobody for me to date. I have to avoid hanging around with married couples because the wives get so NASTY when I talk to their husbands. I'm not putting moved on husbands, I am just trying to have a conversation with ANYone who can discuss something besides kids and homemaker crap and church!
My parents are college-grads, and a dual career couple. They moved to Shenango Valley for career opportunities back in the day. My mother's family has been sending ALL children to college, including the women, since before WWI. WWI, not WWII. My father's mother was a college grad but his dad was a career coal miner. I also have farmers and truck drivers in my extended family, just to put things into perspective. My ex-husband called me a "dirty hands type." Things that most women find interesting bore me to death. I'm the kind who'd rather be restoring woodwork or changing oil or cleaning saddles or tailoring clothing or learning new technologies. I don't like fools and country homemakers very much at all and have about a 5 second attention span with them. I actually feel much happier now that I've declared this region dead and started spitting in it's collective eye. lol
I think that MEN have a different experience in a rural are like NW PA, though. There are lots of woman-hating bachelors who do fun things together. There are lots of rural men's outdoorsy activities, lots of bars to skulk, manual labor jobs that pay enough money for a single to live alone on. What's here for women: Eternal church, children, housecleaning, maybe some shopping. Women's career opportunities are much more limited to the helpmate professions, largely, because the labor jobs are man-jobs. The culture of Shenango Valley is men run with the men, and women stay home with the drugework and the ceaseless child-rearing. It's like being under house arrest. The way women are held back by home and hearth makes me very uncomfortable.
Last edited by SorryIMovedBack; 12-02-2014 at 04:15 AM..
Whoops. GlenWOOD, not GlenDALE. Sorry, they all look alike to me!
When was Glenwood elegant? It was long before I moved here. I mean, the Foster Theater has been showing "art" films since the 60s or 70s.
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Sorry that you feel I am "bigoted." But I don't really give a dang. Just like
everyone else, I like what I like, and I ditch whatever I don't.
I never said you should care what I think, or that you should change your preferences.
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I consider myself older and wiser because I have other life experiences to compare to, because I left these small towns and blighted areas and I got to enjoy some real peace and prosperity elsewhere. I am in the same age group as the OP, and I essentially came (back) here as a complete stranger, which is what the OP will be if he or she moves here, and I feel more qualified than you to address the issues that go with that situation.
Although I am from NE Ohio, I'm not from here, either. Is it harder for all middle-aged people to make new friends, or does it vary by person?
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I am white, female, well educated, and I moved from a well-educated
and affluent and SAFE area, back to this impoverished area. And the contrasts
between prosperous and well-maintained and crime-controlled and here are
GLARING. I want to live in a SAFE area, where I can move freely about
the town without having the ghetto and gang activity constantly encroaching. I
want neighbors that I have something in common with, intellectually and
culturally. And planning to retire to a DECLINING area is ill-advised, imo.
You are young and healthy now. But picture yourself at age 85 and much more
frail and slower-moving than you are now, and maybe you'll start to get the
picture. Being 85 and living alone with the spectre of home invasions and
listening to constant gunplay at night is not good quality of life. Every time
we tell you something, you defend YTown and that is fine if YTown provides
acceptable quality of life for you. But respect the opinions of others
who think there are better choices.
My next door neighbors are elderly nuns. (not middle-aged, but not 85, either) On more than one occasion, while chatting, they have said they really enjoy living in the Wick Park neighborhood, and they've never had a problem.
And "listening to constant gunplay at night?" There may be parts of Youngstown where this occurs, but I wouldn't recommend that the OP live there.
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What you have in this entire region, including western PA except
perhaps Pittsburgh, is postindustrial fallout: Elderly working-class
retirees who made their money when the area was more prosperous, and many of
those have some generous pensions and /or inheritance and /or a completely
inherited free house to live in. And then you have largely a class of young
poor welfare have-nots as the only younger populace coming up behind them.
The area lost most of the college-grad baby boomers because there were no good
opportunities here. The current employers think that $10.50 per hour is real
good money. Ed and med are probably the best-paid jobs that still exist.
Overall, I don't think that will offer the tax base to keep these towns from
further decline and decay in the future. 2006 to now, I observe decline with
smattering of improvement in downtown YTown and Sharon.
The Shenango and Mahoning Valleys were meccas for jobs in the '30s into the
'50s or '60s, but they have always been blue collar and labor job meccas.
In their heyday, they were not so far behind the rest of the nation,
intellectually and culturally and economically. When they lost the mill and
manufacturing jobs. NOTHING comparable has sprung up to replace them. There may
be pockets of high-tech manufacturing, small companies, but the structure of
those employers is usually a very tight-knit group of relatives or business
associates that controls them, the office jobs are handles by spouses and
relatives, and the labor is paid $8 - $10 per hour.
While there may be some truth in this, I think you're overgeneralizing too much. Oh, and I make much more than $10/hr. but not nearly as much as some of the techies down at the Youngstown Business Incubator.
Quote:
Depending on where the OP is coming from, whether the OP is male or female,
and how much intellectual stimulation the OP is looking for, this region may or
may not suit. I've already proven that I am not the demographic who will find
companionship and acceptable quality of life in YTown, because I have no peers
there. Actually I have no peers here.
Shenango Valley gives me a very Polish and ethnic and Catholic and working
class vibe. I find the culture here odd and misogynistic. Most of the white
people who lived in Farrell at one time have moved to Hermitage. There's
really no social life for single women in my age group, unless you count church.
Families in Shenango Valley are insular. Women mostly do things with their
own children, and then when they are in my age group, they are free babysitter
for grandchildren. Everything is home and hearth and continuous
child-rearing. I'm done with that, and I am Protestant, and "my" people
finish raising their own offspring, and then they retire from that and whoever
spawns the next generation takes care of their own childrearing work. As far
as I can tell, there is no childfree, debt-free, empty nester phase to Shenango
Valley life. I gave updating because I want companionship for me, and not
the eternal childrearing crapwork that these smalltown people think I ought to
be doing. I've been back here about 8-9 years, and this area's high school
mentality and its failure to EVER release women from being the family drudge and
free babysitter to be used and abused at will is getting very tiresome. It's
hick, is exactly what is is. Might as well be some peasant in a rural village
in Europe in the 20th Century. Of course, if one never shook loose from that
culture, one probably thinks that's the way things are everywhere.
(Suffocating insular family life: Ick!)
My parents are in their 80s and starting to have some health problems. THEY
(for years) have gone to Erie for a Protestant social life with people who are
not their relatives by blood or marriage, lol. My siblings moved out of state
right about the time I moved back, so I am the one helping to get things sold,
estate matters, and real estate decrapification done. Then I will skedaddle and
hopefully be not too old to get a decent job in a decent locale that isn't so
lower class. But right now, yeah, fml, I am like Dirty Harry: Go ahead, make
my day, Punk. If any of these annoying hicks around here want to get nearer
to God, I'd be happy to send a few of their misogynistic and tediously boring
selves there, too. lol
I like to make money, get intellectual stimulation, meet interesting people
who are not my relatives by blood or by marriage, work hard, play hard, but
definitely avoid motherhood and all house-cleaning homemaker drudgework. As
you all might have surmised, I am feeling a bit stymied in meeting my goals and
having fun here, haha! And as a heterosexual female single, there's nobody
for me to date. I have to avoid hanging around with married couples because
the wives get so NASTY when I talk to their husbands. I'm not putting moved on
husbands, I am just trying to have a conversation with ANYone who can discuss
something besides kids and homemaker crap and church!
My parents are college-grads, and a dual career couple. They moved to
Shenango Valley for career opportunities back in the day. My mother's family
has been sending ALL children to college, including the women, since before WWI.
WWI, not WWII. My father's mother was a college grad but his dad was a
career coal miner. I also have farmers and truck drivers in my extended
family, just to put things into perspective. My ex-husband called me a "dirty
hands type." Things that most women find interesting bore me to death. I'm
the kind who'd rather be restoring woodwork or changing oil or cleaning saddles
or tailoring clothing or learning new technologies. I don't like fools and
country homemakers very much at all and have about a 5 second attention span
with them. I actually feel much happier now that I've declared this region
dead and started spitting in it's collective eye. lol
I think that MEN have a different experience in a rural are like NW PA,
though. There are lots of woman-hating bachelors who do fun things together.
There are lots of rural men's outdoorsy activities, lots of bars to skulk,
manual labor jobs that pay enough money for a single to live alone on. What's
here for women: Eternal church, children, housecleaning, maybe some shopping.
Women's career opportunities are much more limited to the helpmate professions,
largely, because the labor jobs are man-jobs. The culture of Shenango Valley
is men run with the men, and women stay home with the drugework and the
ceaseless child-rearing. It's like being under house arrest. The way women
are held back by home and hearth makes me very uncomfortable.
I can't comment on any of that, because I'm not a middle-aged woman, but I don't think the OP is, either.
.. Cearfoss estimates that as many as 45 percent of Youngstown’s drivers are without a license, insurance or both. ...
Sorry, but this crap just goes on and on and on. Might be your cup of tea, but it's not mine. I hear pretty much the same thing about New Castle and West Hill of Sharon from the people who live there. Farrell, well I posted pictures of it a few years ago. Larger cities like Cleveland and Pittsburgh have potential to reinvent themselves. YTown has lost what, 20,000 people in the past 10 or 15 years?
This is interesting reading. I haven't finished it yet.
Sorry, but this crap just goes on and on and on. Might be your cup of tea, but it's not mine. I hear pretty much the same thing about New Castle and West Hill of Sharon from the people who live there. Farrell, well I posted pictures of it a few years ago. Larger cities like Cleveland and Pittsburgh have potential to reinvent themselves. YTown has lost what, 20,000 people in the past 10 or 15 years?
This is interesting reading. I haven't finished it yet.
Yes, you will hear gunfire mixed with fireworks on midnight of New Years Eve.
The crazy lady is pretty unique; never saw anything like that before.
I wouldn't want to live in a neighborhood where that kind of stuff happens regularly, either. Unfortunately, people who don't know better, assume this kind of stuff is common throughout the city. (and people who are unfamiliar with the region, assume the whole region is like this, because, to an outsider, the whole MSA is "Youngstown/Warren")
I was thinking about your previous post, and you're absolutely right that this region's down-to-earth/blue-collar attitude isn't for everyone. If one is looking for sophistication, they can find it here, but it's not a dominant feature. Some people enjoy fine dining, and know what all of the different knives, forks, spoons, dishes, and glasses are for. Others, like me, prefer the comfortable setting of a family owned diner.
OP here. I am grateful to read everyone's responses. I want to hear both sides of the story and everyone's opinion. I am very busy right now, but I will post a longer post soon.
Okay, okay folks, getting back to Youngstown, the reason I started this thread....
What about tornadoes? Are these common in that part of the state? I am assuming that homeowners insurance is higher due to the threat of tornadoes. Is that correct?
Tornadoes are rare. Not a concern.
I'm not going through the whole post again, but much of Youngstown is a bit rough. There ARE some good areas, but I'm not familiar enough with them to know where they are.
Boardman and Liberty are (I think) thought of as part of Youngstown. I have no problem with either area. If you want to live very near Y'town, I'd suggest those. Or Austintown.
I really liked Boardman, but I ended up finding my dream house in Warren.
Warren has demarcated "good" and "bad" areas. There is very little interaction between the two.
I'm very happy here, and I am not trying to "make the best of it". I like it.
Downtown Warren is a fine place to walk, dine, and shop. In general I'd avoid the West Side. Although there might be exceptions.
I involve myself in local organizations and with my church. There are many churches here, not only Catholic. I'm not Catholic and I've found a good one.
There are activities and organizations for the college educated and up-scale. If you look, you will find them.
Boardman and Liberty are (I think) thought of as part of Youngstown. I have no problem with either area. If you want to live very near Y'town, I'd suggest those. Or Austintown.
Boardman and Liberty are definitely NOT thought of as part of Youngstown. They are their own separate townships with their own schools, police, fire departments, etc. Most (all?) of the townships that border the Youngstown city limits can use a Youngstown mailing address, but that does not make them part of Youngstown. I know people in Austintown, Boardman, and even Poland who use Youngstown as their official address.
Sorry, but this crap just goes on and on and on. Might be your cup of tea, but it's not mine. I hear pretty much the same thing about New Castle and West Hill of Sharon from the people who live there. Farrell, well I posted pictures of it a few years ago. Larger cities like Cleveland and Pittsburgh have potential to reinvent themselves. YTown has lost what, 20,000 people in the past 10 or 15 years?
This is the state of almost every American city in the US. Over the last 10 years or so the media has been pushing urban living and how great it is. If you look closely, most cities have a couple trendy neighborhoods and the rest are slums. The only thing that has occurred through revitalization in any city is a steeper contrast between the rich and poor by pushing out the middle class.
Yes, New Castle has bad parts but Lawrence County is a very wonderful place. I have never been afraid in Shenango, Neshannock, New Wilmington, Volant, etc. Stay out of the urban centers and you will encounter a totally different world.
Yes, the same can be said for Philadelphia, bluecarebear.
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(Greatly amused! LOL)
